Typophile - Ahoy Scrappin' Pirates! - Comments

kegler — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:44:16 -0800

> Do you consider a font still a font when it has been turned into > outlines or outlines and modified in Adobe Illustrator?

I consider it a design with intellectual property rights. If someone chooses to use that design, they chose to accept the terms of the licensing. The design does not cease to be a design when it is converted to outlines anymore than a song that is sampled in another song. If the original is recognizable, it retains it's IP rights. (disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, although I play one on the internet)

gln — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:33:35 -0800

Richard

I don?t think it is a coincidence, but if someone makes a set of "cezanne" rubber stamp alphabets or alphabet sticker sets, they they are making a derivative product that would require an additional licensing arrangement. In these cases, they are essential re-selling a version of the font in another format.

Do you consider a font still a font when it has been turned into outlines or outlines and modified in Adobe Illustrator?

gln

kegler — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:12:20 -0800

That is the Key: proper licensing to begin with. Don't even get me started with Team One and the Lexus campaign!

>Is there a link to something I can read about this Starbucks thing? There will be soon.

Mark Simonson — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:06:12 -0800

Richard, I agree with you about derivative works and getting the proper license to begin with.

What I meant was, I don't think I would try to sell a special "large scale" license. If somebody buys a font and uses it in some "large scale" way in, say, an ad campaign, I'm getting more than the license fee from them already. (Less tangible, of course, but a real value.)

Chris Rugen — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:00:07 -0800

Is there a link to something I can read about this Starbucks thing?

kegler — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:44:16 -0800

Good point Mark, The main issue with Starbucks is that they did not purchase the proper license. The extensive use of the font for commercial products is actually a separate issue.

>Is it just a coincidence that P22 Cezanne is the > best-selling P22 font at MyFonts?

I don

Mark Simonson — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:23:54 -0800

Regarding the Starbucks/P22 Cezanne problem...

My opinion is that as long as somebody purchases the the proper license for the number of CPUs/devices/whatever, I don't care how extensively they use it. In fact, I hope they use it as much as possible and as visibly as possible because in my experience there is a direct relationship between how often people see a font and how well it sells. Is it just a coincidence that P22 Cezanne is the best-selling P22 font at MyFonts?

union — Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:22:01 -0800

If the fonts on the disk are pirated, then the designers who are being ripped off should be informed, and take action.

But I doubt the people purchasing this software would ever buy fonts, so is it damaging the font industry?

If this is such a money spinner, maybe we should be doing font CD's for these stores, taking type into the mainstream and making being a typophile the next big thing!

Miss Tiffany — Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:34:28 -0800

I'll guess that no one could stop you from doing that, David. ;)

Agfa's definition is useful and understandable -- after reading it 2 or 3 times ::wink::

deh — Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:26:01 -0800

Typespotting at a craft store is amusing (well, possibly). Besides the scrapbooking section, there are rubber stamps, wall stencils, etc. You can play spot-the-Lithos-knockoff or wonder why letters with dots at the terminals are popular so long after Tekton's heyday. I've often wondered if any of these products were from licensed designs. (Any success stories?)

I'm having difficulty understanding how a EULA would prevent someone from, say, collecting all the nearby lost cat posters to obtain Comic Sans in A-Z, then creating the scrapbooking dies from those. What am I missing?

kegler — Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:23:15 -0800

It took a long time to write our new EULA (we had hired a lawyer to write it, but then threw out what they did and started over), but also we realized that we had to show examples of what was allowed with the basic license and what required additional licensing. We have had some good response so far.

dan — Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:59:50 -0800

Richard what a clear explaination of licencing. I like you used Illustration as well as type. Most licencing is written by lawyers in a language most people don't understand. Great Job.

kegler — Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:15:17 -0800

We are close to resolution with Starbucks, so an appropriate modification will be made soon.

hrant — Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:08:01 -0800

RIchard, this is great stuff.
Just one problem: you don't want to show people getting away with it. Like in the Starbucks case, I know it's a really juicy one worth showing, but instead of something like "(Which Starbucks has not done after repeated requests)" you should say that legal action is pending, or at least being considered, or something.

hhp

Diner — Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:52:57 -0800

That is a fantastic illustration of appropriate licensing. I will indeed be adding such an illustration to the Diner in the near future.

Also to address Chris' post, to clarify, they contacted me to aquire permission to use the font in this manner and I explained permission would not be granted without first securing an OEM license, needless to say they went ahead anyway and now I'm playing clean-up.

Stuart :D

Ahoy Scrappin' Pirates!

Diner — Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:35:28 -0800

The modern day font designer has a new more evil, more deadly threat than those who enjoy Carracho, Gutella, Hotline, etc. . .

40 Year old single women with a pension for scrapbooking. These gals will stop at nothing to get their grubby hands on a as many fonts as are available and to add insult to injury will make these super secret "collections" available to the public in the form of eBay auctions and, retail software products for sale.

In almost every case, these font finds are indeed commercial fonts or fonts with a do not distribute read me.

I am starting this thread to spotlight what may be infringing efforts on the part of those who'd care to make a quick buck at our expense. Please feel free to contribute what you deem questionable font collections for resale.

Stuart :D

Please check out: http://www.instantscrapbookfonts.com/

Typophile - Ahoy Scrappin&#39; Pirates! - Comments

Ahoy Scrappin' Pirates!

Typophile - Ahoy Scrappin' Pirates! - Comments