Typophile - Mrs Eaves -- save me from myself - Comments

crazy overshoots Surely not

Nick Shinn — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 14:29:19 -0800

crazy overshoots

Surely not in print. Are you talking about on-screen hinting?

Interesting text faces used in magazines: Goudy Old Style (Harpers), Tyfa (Fast Company).

Others?

I think the age of twee must

Eben Sorkin — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:47:43 -0800

I think the age of twee must be over because you only get 6 months to be ’in’ now. Innit? ;-)

Link is maybe NSFW. It uses that f word don’t you know...

I wonder why more bands

DanGayle — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 10:33:49 -0800

I wonder why more bands don’t use it, because according to Wikipedia, it’s the very definition of Indie:

Those crazy overshoots make

James Puckett — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:50:15 -0800

Those crazy overshoots make Mrs. Eaves twee as all-git-out. It sets some of the most crazy bouncy lines I’ve ever seen.

Patty I had wondered about

Eben Sorkin — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:41:33 -0800

Patty I had wondered about just that issue being new to InDesign. Thanks!

Yeah well that’s where

pattyfab — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 07:30:04 -0800

Yeah well that’s where Quark comes in handy. For all it’s maligned on this forum, Quark lets you adjust kerning pairs for each font universally. My in-house typesetter (when I was A.D. of a publishing house) used to go in and customize each font before she started. Hopefully InD will get with that program in the next upgrade.

All Emigre faces take real

Dan Weaver — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 06:42:02 -0800

All Emigre faces take real work with kerning especially larger sizes. At my site I use Tarzania Bold but it was a lot of work. I would think for a publication you wouldn’t have the luxury of adjusting the kerning with your deadlines.

RE: Headlines That’s a

Eben Sorkin — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 23:14:51 -0800

RE: Headlines That’s a great point.

But really, I don’t believe that one should say “oh, such and such typeface can’t be used for such and such kind of work”. I agree in general. There are choices that seem beyond good sense to me. I would almost certainly not set an entire novel in FF Amoeba for instance.

And moreover how a typeface strikes me is individual. It’s how your audience feels ( or client’s ) audience feels that will count.

I was talking about the

Nick Shinn — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:57:46 -0800

I was talking about the typeface.
I suppose its proportions—small x-height and long extenders—might make it a bit twee, but its low contrast and lack of fussy details certainly don’t.
In comparison, the recent types derived from Fleischmann, which have been used for magazine text, have quite mannered details.

But really, I don’t believe that one should say “oh, such and such typeface can’t be used for such and such kind of work”.

Having said that, I think Ms Licko’s pushing it a bit to suggest Mrs Eaves for “elegant headlines”, unless they’re small headlines, as it doesn’t have optical scaling.

Zuzana Licko is quoted as

Eben Sorkin — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:49:04 -0800

Zuzana Licko is quoted as saying:

“I think Mrs Eaves was a mix of just enough tradition with an updated twist. It’s familiar enough to be friendly, yet different enough to be interesting. Due to its relatively wide proportions, as compared with the original Baskerville, it’s useful for giving presence to small amounts of text such as poetry, or for elegant headlines and for use in print ads. It makes the reader slow down a bit and contemplate the message.”

I think she is right.

Eben, I believe Nick was referring to the woman, not the font...

And what makes you say that? Was she substantial? I have no idea what she was like in personality or form, but weight would not come into it.

“BTW, no way is the hefty

microspective — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:37:03 -0800

“BTW, no way is the hefty Mrs E ’twee’.”

Eben, I believe Nick was referring to the woman, not the font...

BTW, no way is the hefty

Eben Sorkin — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:25:25 -0800

BTW, no way is the hefty Mrs E “twee”.

Yes it is. It is twee as F***.

It’s not the weight but the sentiment. That’s great for some things; but magazine copy, unless it’s all frilly couches and forcing bulbs and small cottages (all things I have no quarrel with BTW ) - not so much.

At least I haven’t

Eben Sorkin — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:20:26 -0800

At least I haven’t recommended Oneleigh :-)

Maybe you should - I would rather read Oneleigh than Mrs Eaves. Slightly strangely shaped letters are far better than poor spacing IMHO. Also Oneleigh has a vibe that is way more fun. But I would have to know more about what was driving this choice before etc. etc.

Nick - I love Oneleigh and

pattyfab — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:53:02 -0800

Nick - I love Oneleigh and just bought it as a matter of fact. But it wouldn’t work for magazine body copy. I may use it for a cookie cookbook. Wishing it had more fractions though. OSF don’t make good fractions.

I think you may be bending

Nick Shinn — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 19:41:41 -0800

I think you may be bending over backwards a bit far there Nick.

At least I haven’t recommended Oneleigh :-)

But seriously, did you ever look at Garamond or Bembo?
How in the world those don’t scare the pants off readers is beyond me.
I can only assume they are blissfully oblivious of the details which typographers believe “call attention to themselves” — or worse still, perhaps they do notice them, and actually enjoy reading text with a bit of flavour.

BTW, no way is the hefty Mrs E “twee”.

Mrs Eaves -- save me from myself

Simon3W — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:13:03 -0800

Hello all.

I’m not a designer or typographer, just an editor. I edit a small-scale UK magazine. As well as covering current affairs we review films and music, but it’s a pretty intelligent read — sophisticated but pretty sober. We’re relaunching next month, going from a mono interior to full colour.

Obviously fonts are a pretty big deal. It’s the designer’s call, but I got a few books and read up just because typography interests me. I also read a bunch of blogs and forums.

But here’s the thing. I can’t understand why Mrs Eaves wouldn’t be a brilliant body text for us. I know it’s pretty common now, and I know it draws attention to itself, but I like that it’s full of character. In comparison most other things look bland, particularly the Baskerville alternatives that I get presented with.

The designer is with me to a certain extent. He says that he loves the way it looks, but that I should understand that typographers have a problem with it as a body text. Well, I guess I do, but only insofar as it wants to be seen. I do think it’s readable despite all that.

If we use it it’ll be 11.5 on 11.5, with column widths of around 75mm. We’ll be printing onto good-quality 90gsm satin.

So, if you think my subscribers will benefit, please convince me that I’m wrong (with alternatives). The only other font I’ve seen that I really like is Fabiol, and I reckon you’d think that was worse...

Thanks.