Typophile - Scotch Romans in books - Comments

That’s what I thought you

terminaldesign — Mon, 12 May 2008 16:41:59 -0700

That’s what I thought you meant.

I don’t necessarily agree.

For James Montalbano> The

SuperUltraFabulous — Mon, 12 May 2008 16:39:04 -0700

For James Montalbano>

The typeface should match the context and technical requirements of the text.

A period romance novel would look nice set in something like Adobe Garamond Premier- designed for extended reading and a little rustic.

If I was setting a book on early southern California Mexican poetry I might use Relato, Rongel, Elmhurst, Andralis, or Merlo. According to Eduardo Manso, Relato was in fact designed for shorter reads- perfect for poetry.

If I was setting a young girls poetry book I might use Odile.

Eplica or Nexus Serif also have a poetic feel but a little harder edged.

Non-fictional texts or informational texts such as Jesper’s book dealing with personal heath- Miller is a perfect match. A little newsy, but it still has a warmth to it. Whereas, Chronicle is corporate and would be fabulous in publication in dealing with a subject like personal finance.

Some technical considerations are paper quality, page size, and ink.
Junky paper would necessitate a font like Karmina, Clarendon or Oranda to be used.
A narrow font would be appropriate for a the tight space of a magazine.
Printing with UV inks would necessitate using a slightly more blunt grade of, lets say, Mercury because the ink will not bleed as readily with UV ink creating a really spiky look. Some fonts look terrible on glossy magazine paper.

I usually think about the way the type makes me feel and then winnow choices down.

Interestingly, Font Bureau recommend the Miller is recommend for use with Newspapers and Magazines.

Mikey :-)

PS... Also:

http://users.aber.ac.uk/dgc/Font_Connotations/font_connotations.html

> The grade variations in

kentlew — Mon, 12 May 2008 05:33:09 -0700

> The grade variations in Daily are obviously similar to the ones you can have for Mercury, or?..

Yes. Or more precisely: the grade variations you can get for Mercury are similar to the ones that were done for Miller Daily. Or Bureau Roman or Poynter Oldstyle Text — FB revived the practice of graded types for newspapers first. H&FJ followed suit with Mercury and Chronicle.

Will — Rich & I were

charles_e — Sun, 11 May 2008 18:02:26 -0700

Will — Rich & I were discussing our “desert island typefaces” just before he went off to the Production Manager’s meeting in Chicago. We sort of had the same ones, but our real conclusion was that they were fonts we new how to use. And I think that’s the key; while you need to appreciate them, you go to them because you now how to make them work.

Miller has almost become the

will powers — Sun, 11 May 2008 16:17:01 -0700

Miller has almost become the “house face” where I work. Both I and at least 3 freelance designers with whom I work have all gotten Miller, independently of one another. I find it completely suitable for a wide range of trade and academic publishing. The color is great, the letter fitting is fine.

Scotch Romans from Monotype and Linotype never pleased me very much, in metal or photo, computer or PostScript versions. Letter fitting was never quite right, and they were too dark for my eye. When I once designed a lengthy book in Monotype Scotch Roman, we had the composition house re-arrange the matrix case, substituting the caps with caps one size smaller. Ten-point caps with eleven-point lowers, etc. True, the caps looked a tad light. But overall they reduced the too-dark page color.

PostScript Scotch was never refined until Carter set to work on Miller. He pulled it off. The only thing I do not like about it is that he put a “flat-footed” R in the shift+R position, and the “curly-footed” R in an alt position. To my eye the curly-foot R is the better one. I am not sure which R is more historically accurate. But I don’t care; I’m happy it is there.

We print Miller on Glatfelter Natures Book, 55# and 60#. It looks great. If it is a duotone or 4-c book printed in China, we use a 128gsm matte-coated art paper. It also looks fine on that stock. Now that’s a good test of a type: if it looks good on both coated and uncoated.

If I ever end up on that proverbial desert island with a computer, I want to have Miller with me. Long Live Miller!

powers

You’re right. It’s

jesper — Sun, 11 May 2008 09:46:54 -0700

You’re right. It’s Miller text and Miller display, €40 or so per style. I think the publisher will appreciate this more economic option.
The grade variations in Daily are obviously similar to the ones you can have for Mercury, or?..
And yes, it’s a postman. A very depressed postman. “Masennus” is depression in Finnish.

Are you really using Miller

kentlew — Sun, 11 May 2008 08:36:42 -0700

Are you really using Miller Daily? Or are you just calling it that by mistake?

Miller Daily is a part of the Font Bureau Readability series and is not available through the Font Bureau retail library. I don’t think licenses are available for less than 10 installed stations, starting at $600 per style. So I’m curious how you have it to use.

I have set several books in Miller and it is a good workhorse typeface. But I would recommend Miller Text for book composition. The proportions are better suited.

Miller Daily has a larger x-height, considerably shorter ascenders and descenders, slightly smaller caps, and a generally narrower set width. All typical adaptations for newspaper use. Also, it is produced in a variety of grades, so the color on the page can depend upon the grade that you’re using.

— Kent.

Is that a postman in the

AGL — Sun, 11 May 2008 08:02:26 -0700

Is that a postman in the illustration? :-)

Ah Caledonia! — the font

Eluard — Sun, 11 May 2008 06:54:50 -0700

Ah Caledonia! — the font used in the first, and only good, setting of Thomas Pynchon’s Gravity’s Rainbow.

I’ve read at least one

James Puckett — Sun, 11 May 2008 06:49:53 -0700

I’ve read at least one book set in Miller, and it was just fine. Just watch the color-Scotch romans can get really dark if one isn’t careful.

Caledonia — and for that

charles_e — Sun, 11 May 2008 05:52:22 -0700

Caledonia — and for that matter, Century Expanded — were popular book fonts in the 1960s and 70s. Remember, this was fairly early days for using photocomposition for books, and both New Caledonia and Century Expanded printed well. That ability to print well was one of the primary concerns of books designers of that period.

PostScript Caledonia was a disaster — too thin — and use Century Expanded has faded, perhaps due to the limited character complement. Each generation seems to revive fonts, either directly as with “Bembo Book” or less directly, as with Miller.

PostScript Monticello is another Scotch-based font beginning to be used; Carter did the PostScript version on a commission from Princeton University Press, but it is generally available from Carter & Cone as a Type 1 font with old-style numbers, small capitals, and full ligatures.

I imagine Miller will print fine on the cheap paper selected, but that would be something to check.

FWIW

Miller looked just right -

terminaldesign — Sun, 11 May 2008 04:50:30 -0700

Miller looked just right - thus I’ve decided to use it.

You answered your own question. Trust your own taste and develop your own typographic style.

The type should match the text.

In what way should it “Match” the text? I have no idea what you mean.

Thanks Mikey, About the

jesper — Sun, 11 May 2008 03:19:06 -0700

Thanks Mikey,

About the book: actually there will be forty titles or so in this series. The assignment is from a medical publisher, they wanted something simple and clear for their new paperback editions to be sold in pharmacies, supermarkets and kiosks here in Finland. As the titles vary from depression to insomnia and smoking I decided to do something generic. The color in the upper Fibonacci section will always be a different PMS spot and the little black supersharp 1-bit image will change with the theme. Besides that, they’ll be uniform. The texts are prose - or kind of ... so I felt that a “medical” font would feel too cold. The idea here is to get close to the reader with rather difficult issues.
I myself come from a magazine design background. Maybe that’s why I went for Miller and the descenders and ascenders feel ok to me. Somehow finnish looks better that way ...
The paper was already chosen before I was called in, and it’s not super bad ...
By the way, I tried Chronicle. Didn’t work.

Is this book a romance

SuperUltraFabulous — Sun, 11 May 2008 02:46:21 -0700

Is this book a romance novel? A collection of anecdotes? A guide?
The type should match the text.

Scotches are truly beautiful!

Matthew Carter designed Miller with newspapers and magazines in mind. And since you are using Miller Daily, even more so. It has the most “literary” feel of the do-it-all scotch systems lately. Chronicle is the most sterile. The only thing that concerns me is that Miller Daily has (I think) shorter descenders and ascenders. These are key for reader cognition.

People set books in Times all the time- does it look great? - not award winningly so, but Miller is much better than Times.

Your cover is lovely!

Mikey :-)

PS... Why are you using cheap paper for a book?

Scotch Romans in books

jesper — Sun, 11 May 2008 00:51:03 -0700

Hi,
I know that Matthew Carter’s Miller was designed for newspaper use. However, trying different fonts for body copy in a book I’m designing right now, Miller looked just right – thus I’ve decided to use it.
Is this a faux pas?
Are there any cultural connotations or traditions regarding Scotch Romans that I am not aware of?
Will I be laughed at by typophiles?
The book is printed on cheap uncoated paper – isn’t this one reason a newspaper font would actually work better?

On the cover I used a combination of Neutra and Miller Display Italics.
Again, did I go wrong here?