Typophile - The Winter Group - Comments

otomboy — Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:17:57 -0800

Thank you all for the input, I'm glad to see there's a forum like this.

Justin - You're right, I was trying too hard to veer away from the current logo's vertical layout (just to avoid any similarity), which was a mistake. The other layout/type treatments try too hard to work and I realize a vertical layout probably is the best solution for maximum legibiltiy. The centering of the elements eliminates the WW effect and also gives a better placement for "the".

Oscar - I'm still campaigning fiercely to get the go-ahead to propose a replacement for the "W" mark; stating that it does not scale and reproduce well, etc. I've always been fond of the saying "A good logo should be so structurally clean that it can be drawn in the sand", which doesn't really hold true for the "W".

I would love to take a crack at a new mark, but with our new office being completed in January and signage and collateral scheduled to be produced, I would have to try to find the time to crank out some concepts.

Oscar Morris — Sun, 7 Nov 2004 20:22:36 -0800

Here's a regional engineering firm from my area that took a
similar approach: http://www.ctlt.com

I suspect that those 'toothpicks' used to create the 'T' represent
the marks a tractor makes when digging into the earth. I've seen
the vinyl version on one of their trucks and it's made of crisp lines.
I don't think this breaking down on screen is ideal but nor is it
fatal for the design since they are in the business of moving dirt.
Do you plan on using the W at smaller sizes on screen?

hrant — Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:55:47 -0800

Only a certain pronunciation of it.

hhp

speter — Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:38:25 -0800

Doesn't the president have a trademark on the use of that letter?

jasonleroy — Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:21:58 -0800

Because "W" mark is so complex, I think you need to focus on keeping your type treatment simple.

Every differentiation you introduce within the type (italic to Small Caps, small type to large to small, different alignments) adds a component that the person interacting with the logo has to deal with. The immediacy of the entire name is compromised when the viewer is confronted with too many variations/elements in addition to the leap you are asking them to make from the "W" mark to the logotype.

I like your move to center the "W" mark above the name (the mark on the left reveals the awkward W W moment), and I would try "the Winter Group" all the same size, on the same line, small caps with the W and the G regular caps, with a little word spacing.

Jordan Harper — Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:39:38 -0800

I really like the third one there. If they use their initials (WG) at all it's perfect.
If they don't I'd be tempted to emphasise 'WINTER' over 'the' and 'group' more, as Daniel says.

What would it look like if you took the second one from your "November 01, 2004 - 1:27 pm" post and set 'GROUP' in lc and italics like 'the' and put it under 'WINTER'. Then set 'group' flush with the right edge of 'WINTER'. If you tweak the logo to get the heights even (ish) then it could look good I think.

EDIT: ha! just realised I described number 1. However, I'd go with that concept, but make the relative sizes of 'group' and WINTER more like number 3 from that post.

Some nice ideas so far.<

otomboy — Tue, 2 Nov 2004 07:24:31 -0800

Gabriel - I tried separating the words and the mark, but it looked too separate and disjointed

Loren - when I all-capped the "the" it really became too heavy and "sat" on the 'W'

Daniel - yes i tried all-caps, but seem too blocky and didn't connect well with 'WINTER'

I think the 'the' was getting to me and 'W' seemed too separate, so I tried a different approach:

Although I'm worried it's starting to look like a movie production house logo. Doesn't anyone else read it as "inter group"?

dan — Mon, 1 Nov 2004 15:04:51 -0800

Mike did you look at making ()the and (group) all caps in post number two first example. The and Group shouldn't be as important as Winter. I also like the small caps treatment.

lorenk — Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:30:35 -0800

#3 is best for me, though the "the" doens't seem to fit. did you try it in all caps too? or maybe just move it--i dont think it looks right sitting on top of the W. i really don't like that W mark when it's small. i wish you didn't have to keep that.

also, try playing more with the placement of the W next to the type. it could be too "easy" where it is now.

gabrielhl — Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:18:46 -0800

Hello!
This looks good!

I think with some work on the kerning, #4 could come to look very good (right now I think it looks a little bit too spaced).
But of course, it depends on how you want people to read the name. Each one gives a different tone to the reading. #4 is my personal favorite because the caps separates the words so that it doesn't look like the company's name is "wintergroup". Maybe you could also try a variation on #3 with a (small) space between Winter and Group. Maybe put the title a little more to the right, to separate it from the big W mark, and then add the space between the words, so that "Group" won't feel lost from the rest.

otomboy — Mon, 1 Nov 2004 13:27:41 -0800

Thanks Shawn,
I just noticed that "leg" missing from the mark also. I would love to work on some abstract marks, but unfortunately the previous design firm has seared this mark into their corporate identity. I just hope I can "sell" this redesign.

So far Bembo Small Caps has been the only type to catch my eye. I'm looking for a conservative established type face and this seemed to be most "solid". Coming from an illustrative background, my type face knowledge is sophomoric at best (compared to some people on this board :o)

Right now I'm not 100% certain about the treatment and letter-spacing. I need some typophilic eyes.

shawn harris — Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:44:57 -0800

Hey!

I love the colors and I think the typeface you have chosen is a step in the right direction (for sure). I attached a file of things that I noticed, just my opinions though...

edit: I reread your post and it mentions that you are not able to change the w mark, so ignore my comment about the mark.

The Winter Group

otomboy — Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:49:21 -0800

Hello,
Great site and resource... I wish I found you guys sooner.
This is for a redesign for my company's logo. It is for a wholesale mortgage site which handle multi-million dollar transactions. I am changing the type face and I have to keep the 'W' mark.

current logo:

Proposed:

Any comments are appreciated.

-q