Typophile - Fontleech.com: a blog - Comments

dan_reynolds — Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:54:34 -0800

Yeah Chris, I agree. This is the interesting point. If I were FontShop, I would keep doing just that. But if I were Nick, I probably wouldn't! Both viewpoints need to reconcile somehow

Chris Rugen — Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:42:39 -0800

Dan, FontShop's a good example of the teaser thing. I'm going to license Absara for a job because I was able to work with one weight for free. It really is effective marketing.

Stephen Coles — Tue, 1 Mar 2005 13:23:43 -0800

Raph - Nice post. Thank you for making a very good point that I
overlooked: due credit. It's something that is scarce or poor on
most free font sites.

dan_reynolds — Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:58:53 -0800

I think that free downloads as teasers, like what FontShop USA has been doing, may be a good thing for larger-sized foundries or for font distributors, but Nick's gut is probably right that it is bad for small, independent type designers., especially in the short run.

While the world will always need more fonts

raph — Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:42:31 -0800

Nick, I'm definitely sympathetic to your goals. However, I think that on balance things like fontleech can be good for independent type designers.

To me, the thing that makes fontleech rise above the banner ad-infested "one billion free font" sites is its emphasis on quality. Like it or not, free fonts are very popular. The vast majority of them suck big time, which is bad in all sorts of ways.

By focussing on good fonts, fontleech has the potential to teach free font enthusiasts that quality makes a difference. Good free fonts are still very scarce, so regular visitors will undoubtedly get the message that if you want quality, you should be prepared to pay for it. This is a very different message than you get from the trillion-font download sites.

The other thing that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about fontleech the care it takes to attribute fonts correctly. To me, that is one of the most important ethical considerations, and an area in which even the largest and most mainstream foundries could stand improvement (cough, Segoe, cough).

When I finally get around to my free releases, I will happily spam them to fontleech. I'd also love to figure out a licensing strategy that would keep them from being piled in with the rest of the crap on the scammy sites, and hopefully preserve the use and distribution of the fonts with free software. I'm not sure whether such a thing is even possible, but I'd like to try.

Nick Shinn — Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:42:05 -0800

I'm not asking for regulation of anything. (We have regulations, but they are ignored; companies will do what they can get away with.) I'm suggesting that it's not a good idea for commercial foundries to give away free product, and encourage Fontleech.

It's not a big deal, compared to the huge manipulation of the font marketplace effected by Adobe, Apple, and Microsoft with their bundling of free fonts, but it is the subject of this thread.

aluminum — Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:53:09 -0800

<em>If people don't stand up for their rights, they will be trampled by market forces. </em>

I agree completely, but you're sort of asking for a regulation of hobbies. Runaway capitalism is bad, but I'm not sure if runaway open source software, or creative commons licenses really are the same level of 'evil'.

Nick Shinn — Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:46:52 -0800

I put "graphic artists" in quotations because that is the term Pamela Pfiffner used in her book on Adobe, where I got the 25x figure from -- I think she/Adobe derived the quantity partly from sales of their software, and it covers users of Photoshop, who may be photographers/digital retouchers/image manipulators, artists who use Illustrator, as well as graphic designers using illustrator/InDesign, who do not really consider themselves artists.

I'm not standing on the sidelines, thank you very much.

One doesn't have to be against new technology to be concerned about its effect on society. One doesn't have to be against capitalism to be concerned about the way the market is regulated.

The laissez-faire economic philosophy is naive, and was superceded in the 19th century, although it has made something of a come-back with neo-conservatism.

If people don't stand up for their rights, they will be trampled by market forces. This is why politicians run for office, workers unionize, pressure groups agitate, and why professionals form bodies like the AIGA and the GDC. Society moves forward, as does technology.

thetick — Mon, 28 Feb 2005 06:40:09 -0800

Mr Shinn,

I am not following your logic. You talk about market forces adn then talk about the technology behind a revolution in the art of graphic design and business.

Coming from a musical background, is Pro Tools a good thing or a bad thing for the music industry? Has it allowed more real artists to make a living producing and selling there art? Yes, absolutely. Has it allowed more and more talentless hacks to flood the market with bad music. Yes. The business and the market will adjust accordingly.

Yes, a revolution in the technology of graphic design has changed everything. Fontleetch seems to ba an outgrowth of it. You can't grow forward and hold onto the old suppositions of the market and technology.

I am not a "graphic designer", but I work with graphics enough to put together professional independent magazines. I learned in the digital era. I am 38 years old and came late to the field. When I was 19 I dated a Parsons student and was bored to tears by her discussions of serif and san serifs and type. The technology now available has brought that world to me, and I have some facility in it. Will I have your talent and dexterity in it? Probably not.

But I had a vision to publish amagazine and hve the tools and dedication to do it singlehandedly. The revolution in technology has allowed this.

I have the utmost respect for the time, talent and dedication and sacrifice neccessariy to make a living by creating, regardless of the field, but one cannot stand onthe sidelines and tsk tsk that technology radically changes every artea of human endeavor.

I am sure blacksmiths tsk tsk the loss of livelihood and craftsmenship when industrialization started. Warriors lamented the beginning of the gunpoweder era. Ceratinly we lose some things, we gain others. The fact that you put "graphic artists" into quotations seems to me you have an outdated notion of what a grpahic artist is - that it needs to meet certain technical reqiurements and not be judged by the end product.

fontleech — Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:31:04 -0800

Nick,

The name is a self-deprecating joke. It doesn't imply that "anyone who pays for fonts is a real sucker" as you suggested.

You chose to overlook something pretty important in Brian's post: someone plans to buy some commercial fonts based on one of the freebies we pointed them towards. If that doesn't pull the rug out from under you argument, I'm not sure what does.

But you are right about one thing: I'm not interested in working as a marketing or news tool for commercial foundries. That's not the intention of the site. Obviously, if a commercial foundry or font seller is offering a nice font for free (like FontShop does every month), I will cover that. With any luck it might even result in the sale of a commercial font or two. That seems like a no-lose situation.

I'm not sure which aspect of that scenario that victimizes you. But I'm sure you'll point it out.

Joey

Nick Shinn — Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:32:17 -0800

Mr Donnelly, I'm not against hobbyists, nor do I deny Fontleech's right to hype free fonts. This thread is about whether its wise for commercial foundries to get into bed with a free font agency.

From the perspective of the independent foundry, it may be good business, a way to tap into a new market.

But from the perspective of the designer's role in society, it's not good.

With the digitization of the graphic arts, design software has swelled the ranks of those making a living as "graphic artists" some 25-fold. But as Mr Davies points out, part of the deal is that for many, it's not a very good living. Too bad, some would say, let free-market Darwinism winnow the chaff.

This is a similar issue to that of graphic designers doing speculative work as part of a sales pitch. Why work for nothing? Why give stuff away? Why make good quality free fonts easily available? In the short term, it may get some foundries some business, but in the long term it will, to some degree, impoverish the industry.

What would the type business have been like if Adobe, Microsoft and Apple didn't bundle fonts with their applications? More of a mass market.

>one that foundries and designers should work with as a marketing and news tool

Somehow, I don't think that's what Mr Nelson had in mind when he named it after a parasite.

thetick — Sun, 27 Feb 2005 03:51:41 -0800

Usually a lurker here, but i had to register and respond to this trhread. I came across joey's site - fontleech, earlier this week and look forward to it growing.

For the record I publish a few independent magazines and spend between $500-$1000 a year on type. That being said I do enjoy coming across a good frrebie now and then, although they are far between.

I was struck by Mr. Shinn's comments as being overtly harsh and negative. Type design is as much a hobby for many as itr is a profession.

Like any professional you will have a certain clients who will buy most of your product. Period. Type sales is not a mass market. And there are plenty of people out there who try their hand at creating type to various degrees of success and offer their work for free. Good for them, and good for type. Who knows where inspiration is going to come from.

The people that know know that you get what you pay, especially with type.

As a consumer of fonts I love professional founderies that offer freebies. Maybe it's human nature, but I like that they are willing to give something extra - and even intice new clients that way. It's called market capitalism.

I am not talking about piracy or frree rip offs of commercial fonts, those thihngs are plagues on type design - professionally and otherwise. What fontleech seems to me is someone who is generally interested adn knowledgable about type sharing his enthusiasm for it, and also provding a good resource.

I have to say I was unaware of District from Garage fonts, that he highlighted yesterday. I downloaded rthe free weight available from the resource he cited, and can you guess what my next purchase will be? Yes, District.

I think it will, wirth care, grow into a valuable resource for the type community, one that foundries and designers should work with as a marketing and news tool.

jordy — Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:38:27 -0800

Mike
>Jordan - when you say few make a decent living at graphic design are you referring to freelancers or those working at a firm?< Actually, both. As an "art director" for magazines I never made more than a barely living wage, and as a freelancer, it was hand to mouth, some months good, some crummy. And with more and more people working for firms creating their own stuff with "standard" software, everyone is a "graphic designer" so why bother hiring someone?

mike gastin — Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:23:19 -0800

Jordan - when you say few make a decent living at graphic design are you referring to freelancers or those working at a firm?

jordy — Sat, 26 Feb 2005 04:07:57 -0800

>I'm concerned that creatives in the graphic arts don't earn as much as others in less skilled professions.>
Hey Nick, if I knew then what I know now, I would have gone into the building trades, carpentry, house painting, etc., a long time ago, Make a decent living from graphic design or type design? You can't be serious. Few do.

Fontleech.com: a blog

grod — Wed, 23 Feb 2005 07:29:02 -0800

Maybe this should go in the directory? Fontleech.com launched on the 20th of this month and describes itself thus:

If you’re like me (and I’m counting on that), you’ve spent many a sleepless night scouring the web for free fonts that don’t suck. Undoubtedly, you’ve discovered that finding quality, free typefaces requires sifting through a lot of crap. Wouldn’t it be nice if someone did all that sifting for you?

Found via mefi