Dotting an uppercase I in a logo: Where should the dot go?

212dave's picture

Hi all,

I'm working on a logo design where the client wants the word to be all uppercase: it's an acronym. The word includes an uppercase I, and I suspect that the logotype will be friendlier to read if I dot it.

I don't want to identify the name of the client here, but it's similar to SPRITE.

For the uppercase I, I'm echoing the lowercase i's design while keeping the weight of the uppers.

I need your expert opinions: Where's the best place to put the dot ... above the cap height, or down a bit with the I shorter than the other caps? Any rules of thumb?

Many thanks,

Dave

HVB's picture

If you're 'echoing the lowercase i's design' and putting a tittle on it, then it's lowercase, and I don't understand the question. And considering that a logo is essentially a design and not text, it's up to your aesthetic tastes and the overall look whether the tittle rises above the height of the other letters or not.

David Vereschagin's picture

The rule of thumb is that you don’t dot an uppercase I, so it’s totally your call to do what you think is appropriate and works.

JamesM's picture

Don't think there would be a "rule of thumb" since you're breaking the normal rules. But there certainly are examples of other companies using unusual capitalization in product names and logos to be distinctive, such as Apple's "i" products (iMac, iPhone, etc.). I remember that when the iMac first came out, some news articles wrote it as "Imac".

Can't offer an opinion about which looks better in your logo without seeing layouts of both versions.

sondre m's picture

As everyone else has said, it's hard to say what the "rule" is when you are breaking it. I guess it's hard to post your work in progress when even the name is classified, but – very general speaking, if you were making a logo design for Sprite, I'd start of with the dot underneath the cap height, so it would read SPRiTE and go from there.

Chris Dean's picture

Hi Dave, welcome to Typophile. How about showing us a few sketches first? Just use letters as close to the actual ones as possible, without breaching confidentiality. You’ll find you get better a better response if you show people what you have already tried before asking for help. In addition, it is considered polite to use your full name in your profile. It has also been my experience that if you use your real name as your screen name, you tend to get more and better feedback. Good luck out there, and remember, may the fonts be with you™.

hrant's picture

It might be hard to provide more insight into the nature of the organization without giving out too much, but it's the only way to ensure that what you're talking about isn't merely a visual gimmick, that it makes sense in context.

BTW, really going out on a limb here: might there be a Turkish connection? :-)

hhp

John Hudson's picture

might there be a Turkish connection?

Almost certainly not, since the dot on the I seems to be a discretionary, stylistic decision: ...I suspect that the logotype will be friendlier to read if I dot it. [OP]

hrant's picture

Sure, but if we're lucky the client's wife is Turkish or something.

BTW if you want a friendly "i", look at Gill Kayo.

hhp

212dave's picture

Hi typophiles,

Whoa, thanks for the replies! Great, I'll post an image ... Here are two of about a dozen options we're brainstorming for the client. Each also includes an pictograph and a few descriptive words, which I'm leaving out for now.

(The upper typeface is Signika Semibold, the lower is Titillium 25L. On each of them I copied in the "i" dot.)

Dave

212dave's picture

^ P.S.: At this point we're unlikely to go with a dotted-i version. But if you have further thoughts, I'm happy to be educated ...

hrant's picture

The dot might make sense. If the company has to do with people* then the dot being prominent is good; otherwise you can still use a lc structure, just keep the dot within the "rectangle".

* http://www.unum.com/
The dot on the "m" should go though.

BTW is anybody else getting an uncomfortably strong Meta/Officina vibe from Signika Semibold? Has Anna Giedryś made any other typefaces?

hhp

JamesM's picture

If the dot is above the cap height, it'll be the focal point, so you'd want to do something interesting with it.

Karl Stange's picture

BTW is anybody else getting an uncomfortably strong Meta/Officina vibe from Signika Semibold? Has Anna Giedryś made any other typefaces?

On her website she writes the following, "Being a typical signage typeface it is inspired by typefaces such as Ronnia, Meta, and Tahoma".

Personally I do not see a significant enough resemblance to make me uncomfortable and the competence of her work in general and specific academic background suggest that she is a promising designer rather than an opportunist.

hrant's picture

I think the chances are good that you're right. I would like to see what fonts she had made previously, because extremely few people can produce something of that quality as a first effort.

BTW one thing I'd point out here is that the naming of specific inspirations/"inspirations" does not preclude outline theft.
http://typophile.com/node/49909#comment-500077
In such cases it's usually that the designer doesn't realize/agree that he/she did something wrong.

hhp

Karl Stange's picture

BTW one thing I'd point out here is that the naming of specific inspirations/"inspirations" does not preclude outline theft.

Agreed. I guess I am in a hopeful mood today.

Karl Stange's picture

With regards to the original thread, I personally do not like the floating dot at all and for what it is worth would prefer to see some kind of ligatured relationship between the /I and the /T, at least in the Sprite treatment.

Nick Shinn's picture

Whatever the method, Signika is clearly conceived as a finessed Meta, not an original design.

In order to distance from the source, some letter proportions have been altered, some terminal constructions changed and overall “softening” applied. It’s all a bit much, no matter how pleasing or effective the finished result, because the design does not establish its own identity—the modifications being piecemeal and unrelated, unable to escape the fundamental presence of Meta asserting itself.

The reason that types such as Gotham and Avenir are successful developments of obvious sources is that, first, they are not informed by so idiosyncratic a design as Meta, and secondly, they restrict themselves to one primary thematic counterpoint to the original.

R.'s picture

Signika in black, Meta Medium in red (spacing adjusted):

Chris Dean's picture

I think we should start a “Doppelgänger” board.

Chris Dean's picture

Does there even exist any form of legal document that states what constitutes a legitimate “cover-tune” compared to copyright infringement, for typefaces instead of music?

hrant's picture

Thank you for doing that, R.; it seems pretty conclusive to me. :-/

Somebody should ask Giedryś to come clean, and pull the font.

BTW, what is Font Squirrel's policy on things like this?

hhp

aluminum's picture

How important is that it remains an acronym? I think adding a lowercase letter will break that connection.

212dave's picture

Thanks ... You're right, aluminum — having the logo read as an acronym is very important to the client.

Karl, interesting thought about ligatured IT: I've uploaded here. Are these like what you had in mind, or something else?

(Re typeface selection, the client is liking Titillium best. Yay.)

212dave's picture

Also, hrant — thanks for the tip about Gill Kayo. Groovy i!

Karl Stange's picture

Are these like what you had in mind, or something else?

Along those lines but possibly retaining the idea of the lc /i but using the /T to form the dot, which would necessitate some manual adjustment.

212dave's picture

^ Ah I see, thanks.

Florian Hardwig's picture

Possible inspiration: Dotted I in all-caps.

212dave's picture

^ Thanks Florian, great examples from hundreds of years ago to the present!

hrant's picture

FWIW, I've just been advised by somebody I trust that Signika by Anna Giedryś is not plagiarized. And I feel bad that I expressed a negative assumption about it, and her.

Sometimes pictures distort more than they reveal.

hhp

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