Pirkei Avot Font

Sami's picture

Hi, my name is Sami A. Mandelbaum and I like to share my hebrew font "Pirkei Avot".
The design is based on a caligraphic font from a "Pirkei Avot" book.
This font is complet with Nikud and Teamim.
I am not a designer and I am better at programing or reprograming opentype features.
Please, try to be nice with the critics.
I hope you enjoy.
Sami

Pirkei Avot font link (with pdf exemple): http://www.mediafire.com/?ng239yza3kq0vw1

Aharonium's picture

Thank you for sharing this font. Have you given any thought of a license you would choose to distribute it? This is crucial to me since I only redistribute works (including fonts) that are licensed with open-source licenses.

The two font licenses I'd recommend you take a look at are the SIL OFL and the GPL+FE.

http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=OFL&_sc=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_GPL_font_exception

Aharon

Sami's picture

Hi Aharon,
You can use for comercial proposes, but You can't modify or decompile the font.
Regards
Sami

Michel Boyer's picture

I downloaded the font and it contained the following Copyright:

Copyright: Copyright (c) 2008 by Sami Artur Mandelbaum - samiartur@gmail.com - All rights reserved. This Font Software is licensed under the GNU Public License Version 2. The license available at: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.html.
This font software may not be reproduced, modified, disclosed or transferred, other than in accordance with the accompanying license agreement, without the express written approval of the copyright holder.

Hebrew OpenType Layout logic copyright (c) 2003 & 2007, Ralph Hancock & John Hudson. This layout logic for Biblical Hebrew is open source software under the MIT License; see accompanying license agreement for details or contact copyright holders at .

I don't see how the statement that the font may not be modified other than in accordance with the GNU Public License Version 2 implies that it may not be modified at all. Could you explain?

Sami's picture

Hi Michel, you are right, the text is confused.
I changed the text and uploaded the font again
Sami

http://www.mediafire.com/?pc4l4b66bsk1rcr

Karl Stange's picture

Sami, what is the origin of the Latin component of your font?

hrant's picture

It looks like Times. Sami, which version of Times did you use?

hhp

Sami's picture

Yes, It's an old version of a freeware Times font.

Karl Stange's picture

Yes, It's an old version of a freeware Times font.

Was it under a license of any kind?

Sami's picture

Hi Karl,
the was "Times-Romam" converted by ALLTYPE.
I had a lot of trouble to correct the nodes.
Sami

Karl Stange's picture

converted by ALLTYPE

This company/tool? http://www.alltype.biz/proatc.php

What I am getting at is that, Times-Roman and the many other variations of Times are well established commercial fonts, the most ubiquitous and well known versions of which are licensed by Monotype (Linotype) and Adobe. There are numerous versions knocking around which are advertised as freeware but are basically re-distributed without the permission of those foundries and developers that produced the digital files. My concern is that you have modified another font to add your characters to and it is not clear how the original file was licensed or what its origin is. This is problematic in a number of ways but it also means that advertising your version of the font as usable for commercial work is misleading, as without knowing the full heritage of the file and licensing, supported by a recognised or robust EULA, it would be difficult if not impossible for a commercial entity to take advantage of the font.

You could avoid these issues by placing your original character set inside a new font file and applying clean metadata with a clear license and/or usage guidelines. Considering that you would like your data to be available for commercial usage but with a clause prohibiting modification, you might consider the Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported (CC BY-ND 3.0) license. While this license is not mindful of fonts specifically (though it is used in association with the fontstruct font creation tool), it is well established and covers your criteria.

Sami's picture

Thank you Karl.
Could you sugest a freeware latin font to replace Times?
Sami

hrant's picture

Indeed, cavalier appropriation of Latin outlines is sadly a hallmark of much non-Latin design. But it's great that Sami wants to fix the problem.

hhp

Karl Stange's picture

I can't think of any fonts that would fit your requirement in terms of preventing further modification once you have added and performed your own modifications, i.e., if you use a font that is subject to an open source, copyleft or other libre license, such as the GNU GPL (with or without font exception) then all the work that you do and release should (in the spirit of the license) be subject to the same terms and conditions.

If you are willing to consider releasing under one of the open source licenses, such as discussed in the open source typefaces thread then you would probably find the Font Squirrel site to be the best single resource for finding something to match your needs.

In some ways it comes down to this, it is inherently unfair, in my opinion, to take something designed by someone else, modify it and then ask that other people respect your wishes in not doing what you have done, particularly if you have no agreement with the originator of that data/design.

From the perspective of your design, I would suggest that you consider releasing a clean font with just the characters created by you to support Hebrew. It would not be the first time that I have seen such a font with no Latin support, and with the design and data being yours from a legal and ethical perspective (though that is open to debate as well) you could place whatever restrictions or lack thereof on the font.

hrant's picture

Karl, good advice all around. I guess Sami wants to protect the letterforms he made himself (as opposed to the Latin component) but the bundled third-party open-source component is getting him stuck.

Besides the good suggestion of unbundling the Latin from the Hebrew, I can think of one other avenue: find a Latin font that's free but disallows modification, and convince its designer to let you add your Hebrew to it.

hhp

Karl Stange's picture

Besides the good suggestion of unbundling the Latin from the Hebrew, I can think of one other avenue: find a Latin font that's free but disallows modification, and convince its designer to let you add your Hebrew to it.

And if you find a good fit/match stylistically it would certainly be to the advantage of many users to have the added Hebrew support in a well made font.

Sami's picture

Thank's Karl.
I will remove the font from the link until I finish all modifications.
Sami

Sami's picture

This is the new link without latin part.
The hebrew part is fully funcional.
Maybe in future I will make a complet latin part.
Sami
http://www.mediafire.com/?6czegk46txk8i22

hrant's picture

Good move!
And good luck.

hhp

Karl Stange's picture

Extrapolating a Latin counterpart from the Hebrew design could yield much more interesting results! Good luck with it!

Karl Stange's picture

Do you mean approaching Masterfont to include this Hebrew design in that particular font?

hrant's picture

No, I mean where's that Times from?

hhp

Karl Stange's picture

Yes, good point! I wonder how common this is in non-Latin design, where Latin counterparts are likely an afterthought, if they are considered at all? Have you found a similar trend with Armenian fonts?

hrant's picture

I wish they were an afterthought! :-/ Usually it's: "I wish this Latin font had an Armenian, so let me open it add it myself. Oh, and I'll make the 'ա' by just flipping the 'm'! Then I'll give my font away. I'm doing everybody such a favor!"

hhp

Karl Stange's picture

Sadly that sounds about right. Really this conversation should go elsewhere but do you get many Armenian fonts with no Latin counterpart or is having both included the norm (as much as there is such a thing)?

hrant's picture

Virtually no Armenian fonts have no Latin. It's actually good to include a Latin, the problem is few people actually make it themselves. :-/ The good news lately is the availability of good (or at least decent) open-source fonts that one can add an Armenian to. However this doesn't solve another problem: people who make Armenian fonts and give them away* have rarely spent the time learning to do it right (just like in Latin, actually).

* Notable here is that few open-source fonts allow you to make money selling such derivations.
http://typophile.com/node/99972

hhp

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