Geometric Textura experiment

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Marcin Ciura's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2013 - 1:50pm
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From the legibility point of view, these are excellent changes. The rest is a matter of esthetic judgement, which I don't feel qualified to perform -- perhaps you could ask in the Cyrillic subforum. Your preferred version of |Д| is also my favourite one of the two. If your lowercase |ъ| has a similar bar to the uppercase, then the entire alphabet looks good to me. Also, hereby I withdraw my yesterday's nitpicking on your |Л|.

Marcin Ciura's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2013 - 1:50pm
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Hm, I refrained from making esthetic judgements but I do have one remark that hasn't gone away with sleep: the serifs in the better version of |Д| are asymmetric. I tend to think of these vertical strokes as organic parts of |Д| that only get degraded to serifs in serif fonts. Perhaps you could check if making the left serif similar to the top left part of |в| looks acceptable.

Christian Thalmann's picture
Joined: 2 Apr 2012 - 8:35am
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There is a cyrillic subforum? Where...?

Thanks for your comments! I just did the caps for the Adobe Extended cyrillic characters and am working on the lowercase now. Should have them finished before long.

Marcin Ciura's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2013 - 1:50pm
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Oops, indeed there is no Cyrillic subforum :(
Maybe you can request for feedback here: http://forum.rudtp.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=33 (the registration Captcha is about putting together a picture from its top right corner).
Glad to be of some help. Good luck with the rest of Cyrillic!

Christian Thalmann's picture
Joined: 2 Apr 2012 - 8:35am
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I don't speak Russian, so I wouldn't even know how to register on that forum, much less where to post. :P

Anyway, I know a few Cyrillic-users from work; I'll ask them for opinions.

Here's my take on the Adobe Extended Cyrillic characters:


I believe there's still "Che-descender" missing, but that character name is currently buggy in Glyphs, so it didn't get generated properly. I'll get it done ASAP.

Also, I made an angular |E| for Cyrillic to distinguish it from |Є|. I rather like it.

Marcin Ciura's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2013 - 1:50pm
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If the character in the middle of the second row is |ѣ (yat)|, then its lowercase version has its own special cursive shape, similar to |n| with a bowl. Otherwise, perfect.

Marcin Ciura's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2013 - 1:50pm
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Hi Christian. I saw your full Cyrillic at http://typedrawers.com/discussion/comment/4336/#Comment_4336
I like the new |ъ| and |я| very much. I guess there is an oversight in |Ё| -- it is an optional variant of some |Е|s in Russian. Should somebody use both these letters in all-caps, their juxtaposition would look weird.

Christian Thalmann's picture
Joined: 2 Apr 2012 - 8:35am
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Thanks Marcin, the |Ë| was indeed a mistake. Corrected.

Marcin Ciura's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2013 - 1:50pm
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Hi Christian. Hope you don't mind yet another comment of mine, this time on the capital |Ѣ (Yat)|. Given the archaic feel of blackletter, I would guess this letter will be used more often than in everyday writing (that is: more often than not at all).
IMHO, the current version would work better as the ultra-special |Ҍ (Semisoft sign)| that you understandably haven't done. Its generally small size puts it in the same league as |Ь| and |Ъ| that don't represent any sounds. But |Ѣ| is a full, majestic letter that represents |Е|. Try to typeset Dostoevsky's БѢСЫ (now БЕСЫ). My suggestion is to base |Ѣ| on |Ъ| with its bar prolonged to the right (IMHO cutting its right edge like this: /====\ rather than /====/ would be preferable) and an extra long ascender, like in |Ф|. The call is yours.

Christian Thalmann's picture
Joined: 2 Apr 2012 - 8:35am
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Hi Marcin,

thanks for your insight. I've made the |Ѣ| taller, and I like it that way. I tried cutting the crossbar against the pen slant, but it felt all wrong. I hope it's still legible that way?

I also fixed the long-standing problem that the |Б| was too narrow to feel like a proper capital. Finally, I made a new Ы that looks a bit more "capital" than the old one, thanks to an exaggerated |I|-like serif on the second stem that ties the two parts together into a square box. However, I don't know whether that has a negative impact on legibility. What do you think?

By the way, I'd like to add a cyrillic poster to my MyFonts appearance. Do you have any suggestions for the text on it? I chose the first stanza of the German song "Die Gedanken sind frei" to illustrate Latin text. Unfortunately, I don't know any Slavic languages.

Marcin Ciura's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2013 - 1:50pm
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During the lunch, I did a field test on my Belorussian friend, a native speaker of Russian. The |Ѣ| is good. He found the entire minuscule legible, although he thinks that the thin crossbar that closes the |у| is an unnecessary hindrance. With respect to the capitals, he would mistake |М| for |Т| in isolation, so he suggests that you revert to the first |М|. To his eye untrained to blackletter, the arc in |Т| makes it too similar to |С|. Also, he prefers the old |Ы| that follows the way it's handwritten. As to the text, he pointed me to a Russian pangram: "Съешь ещё этих мягких французских булок, да выпей же чаю." but he says it's a bit cliché. I can ask him for some Russian poetry -- would you prefer a folk song, some classic like Pushkin or Lermontov, or some more modern poet?

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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I'd been ogling this beauty since the beginning - sorry I didn't make the time to help with the crit. Congrats on releasing it!

hhp

Andreas Stötzner's picture
Joined: 12 Mar 2007 - 10:21am
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Absolutely fascinating (as most of your works!).
What is the state of this?

How far are you with the Greek ?

;-)

Christian Thalmann's picture
Joined: 2 Apr 2012 - 8:35am
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Hi Andreas — Gryffensee has been out on MyFonts for more than a year now. I haven't started with a Greek version of it, I'm afraid. What little time I currently have on my hands for type design goes into Traction.

Riccardo Sartori's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 - 4:20am
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Now used for the logo of the Gotham Chronicle: http://gothamchronicle.com

Donald H. Tucker's picture
Joined: 13 Dec 2012 - 3:47pm
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A reader of the font ID board found a letter from your font and asked about it http://typophile.com/node/120447
Fascinating font.
Earlier in the thread you mentioned a "legibility" version. Which of the three final versions -- Eins, Zwei, Drei -- do you consider to be the "legibility" version?
Don

Christian Thalmann's picture
Joined: 2 Apr 2012 - 8:35am
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Nice catch, everyone! :)

Though the /G from Gryffensee Drei seems to have been altered quite a bit (in a bitmap editor?), leaving some unclean transitions:

@ Don: Drei is the version with the more Latin-like capitals implemented, so I'd consider that the "legible" cut.

Donald H. Tucker's picture
Joined: 13 Dec 2012 - 3:47pm
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Thanks Christian. Drei, as I suspected. I can see that the altered _G_ adds another step in complexity. But I doubt it is a major improvement in your design.
Don

Neil Caldwell's picture
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Joined: 8 Jan 2010 - 12:11am
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Nice work Andreas!

Andreas Stötzner's picture
Joined: 12 Mar 2007 - 10:21am
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> Andreas!

??

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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A mind cannot slip without a wet ground? :-)

hhp

Neil Caldwell's picture
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Joined: 8 Jan 2010 - 12:11am
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Huh, what was that?

Um, try that again ...nice work Christian!

Not to say your work isn't nice too Andreas...