Script and old style serif font



I have to reproduce this old sign but can't figure out which fonts are used here. Many lookalikes, but i want it to be as accurately as possible. Looking for both fonts on this pic. Help?

Regards, Mark


Lettered with care and precision. The script does a good job of imitating the a split pen nib as it spreads with increased pressure in a somewhat Spencerian style. As you have noted none of the usual digital suspects are an exact match.
You didn't mention the age of the sign. If it's from the 1950s to 1970s it's possible that the sign maker used a script from Photolettering, Filmotype or a European counterpart.
Closest digital I noted is perhaps Edwardian Script.
As for the heavy serif, the closest digital I noted was Goudy Heavyface.

Thank you very much Don! Useful info.

Age of the sign is unknown to me. Because my time was running out I had to go with the alternatives. I used Edwardian for the script, as suggested. The curls were added by hand using Illustrator's tool for strokes with variable width. The serif was done in ...Times :) which I artificially thickened a bit. The result.. ah well, I guess I have to let go of my crazy perfectionism.


Looks good.
Most people won't notice the difference.
As for your thickened times, compare it with the "lost" font "Times Modern" a pre-digital design (published digitally by Scangraphic, then Elsner+Flake as “SH Times Modern” or “EF Times Modern.” See: The Other Times Modern by Fonts in Use. This is focused on a condensed font. The relevant part is near the end:
Update, Mar 18, 2013: I contacted Albert-Jan Pool, who worked at Scangraphic from 1987–91. He did not remember Times Modern and didn’t find it in his catalogs. But adds this:
"Brendel Informatik [now TypeShop Collection] (Walter Brendel used to be customer of Peter Karow at an early stage of the development of Ikarus, part of their data were in some of the more obscure IK archives of URW) seems to have had some kind of “Times Serial” called Riccione with 7 weights. Maybe E&F derived Times Modern from there by generating a condensed version of the bold weight?"

Indeed, the bold weights of TS Riccione do come closer to Times Modern than anything I’ve seen in digital form (besides E+F’s now unavailable version). Riccione is clearly a different design, though — more cleanly drawn, with balanced counters. This can be a great thing for users, and the XBold is particularly nice, but it does miss the compressed wackiness of Times Modern if that’s what you’re seeking.
--end quote---
Here is a link to the specimen at Myfonts.

Nice story, but in the end it turned out that it is more likely that TypeShop’s Riccione was based on Modern Times Black by Lettergraphics International from 1969 than the other way round. You can read that in the thread under the article in FontsInUse.

Thanks for the clarification. I should have included that info.
BTW, Myfonts only sells some of the varieties of Riccione. There were at least 28 including a Heavy:


Thanks! Considering the number and quality of the contributions in that FontsInUse thread, I thought it would not be fair to those who found out the truth (or what we think of as being the most likely now …) about Riccione and Modern Times Black when my initial suggestion (which proved to be wrong) would make it for another round in forums like these.

Let’s wait and see what interesting mysteries come up next …