Kerning help

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abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
Kerning help
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Been looking at it for hrs and it's just not right. Is ATHE tighter than DRAL here? http://i.imgur.com/nV8bxV4.png Also if you can tell me if there's anything else's thats off I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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"TH" is way loose, and "DR" is slightly loose.

hhp

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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Wow, you totally got me on that one. TH is way too loose ? I mean if thats the case the whole thing would be too loose I'm thinking. So you're saying besides what you mentioned everything else was fine?

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Once those two are fixed smaller issues might become visible.

hhp

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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I'm trying for it to not be too tight, I want the whole thing a bit loosely spaced out, preferrably to H-E-D

Nina Stössinger's picture
Joined: 19 Jun 2006 - 3:01pm
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TH *is* way loose.
It may help to focus on three letters at a time: If you look at THE you should see that there’s way more space between TH than HE.

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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I see what you mean with TH. Im trying to get the same space between HE or the rest of them.

Dimitris Kottas's picture
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Joined: 31 Jan 2014 - 11:32am
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I think that its more a matter of letterforms than kerning. The letters in ATHE are more complex than the DRAL. Maybe if the H was a bit simpler (not so many thin lines) and there was some kind of tail at the L like the first A? Or some other change that will "distribute" the decorative elements more evenly?

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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In the original sketch there was a small flourish for the L but I removed that since got too much. But that's something to reconsider I guess

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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An update, this maybe ? http://i.imgur.com/hBTQ7xh.png

–'s picture
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010 - 4:47pm
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Much worse, to my eyes. I think everybody suggested to tighten (not to loosen) ‘TH’ and ‘DR’. If you want everything to be as loose as ‘TH’, you will need to loosen up all other combinations considerably.

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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yes I'm trying to loosen it up more. Previously TH was tighter than HE. Based on what you're saying now, if I loosen up the rest based on TH then we're going back to step1. Confusing.

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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So had a look at it again, TH is considerably more now which I think made it worse than it was before, almost matching that of H-E

Edit update 3 http://i.imgur.com/RG8U2EL.png

–'s picture
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010 - 4:47pm
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I’d suggest to maybe go into this direction (just a quick and dirty sketch, mind you, based on your last upload):

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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Ok cool. So you increased it a tad bit with A-T nd H-E? Anything else?

–'s picture
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010 - 4:47pm
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For comparison, this is your upload, cropped the same way as my suggestion. Look at them next to each other to see the differences:

Other opinions on my suggestion are very welcome.

abi's picture
abi
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Joined: 4 Aug 2012 - 7:59pm
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Thank you, that helped. so RA was loosened up a bit too. Cool. Appreciate the help.

Nina Stössinger's picture
Joined: 19 Jun 2006 - 3:01pm
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Note that the idea generally is not primarily to equalize the linear distance (how close the rightmost bit of one letter is to the left side of the next) but rather the area between the letters... As the T already has a lot of “air” under its uh, roof, it needs less distance to the letters around it than, say, an H would. That’s why the TH was in fact too loose in the beginning even though the linear distance between these letters was not much. Hope this makes sense.

Thomas Phinney's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2002 - 11:00am
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What Nina said.

Currently, HEDR are tight, AT and RAL are a bit too loose by comparison, and TH is far too loose.