Ehw.

i agree with nick: yik.

Are you kidding? You haven't a clue about designers or even people. The sterotypes you mention are right out of People magazine. Grow up and do real research. Create focus groups in your area with designers as the participants. It will cost you some time and money but you won't spew the tripe you initially posted.

Don't be so defensive, guys. The important thing here is that stereotypes do exist, and they're useful (as long as we're careful not to apply them blindly to individuals); we can help Ole refine -even redirect- his research. Don't let the anticipation of the revelation of some negative traits (and there certainly are some) cause you to dig a trench, pout, stick your tongue out, etc.

hhp

Reply to Dan. Exactly. Stereotypes. What non-designers / general public, think of "creatives" or "designers" and not what designers think of themselves.
So far the research has demonstrated that at least 3 designers think the idea is stupid, this is
of value already. I appreciate the feedback negative or positive.

i'd say stereotypically, most designers are not stereotypical.

As I look at the last couple of posts I realize one thing about designers, that they often prefer to show an eye or partial view of their face when most others would shown a full face shot when posting a picture of themselves. Why? Is it because they would rather be their work that
identifies them or is it just to be different? Granted the last 2 post were me and Hrant, but the partial face shot and eye thing seems very common with designers. If nothing else, at least an interesting observation, although properly not part of the common stereotype I am searching for.

>the idea is stupid

Ehw = stinky, not stupid.

The partial face thing is because the space Typophile gives for icons is small and square, while faces are oblong and need a little more room.

Tiffany: Then why does so much of the stuff they make look the same?

hhp

> stinky

Yes, how dare you put a grande artiste in a box!
Even one that wants to put other people in boxes.

BTW, the Typophile icon does not need to be square.
And I've seen some quite huge ones.

hhp

Tiffany, your comment is so true and makes me think. I hate the stereotypical standards in stockphotography where for example just about any group shot of people seems to have to express racial diversity. In the same way it would be difficult for a stock agency to make fun of "stock" photography standards by doing exactly the same type of shots, I am a bit stuck here as well. I am not certain the concept is strong enough, so this is why I am doing the research. Regardeless of the outcome. I expect to learn from this. I could learn that most designers think even bothering to describe designer in a certain way with humor, external viewpoints such as the publics stereotyping, etc. is not desired.

The non-profit is a design community oriented organization and with zero funding. So why bother? As most organizations need at least some funding to do anything. Well let me elaborate a bit. There is already a current organization with 245 members sponsored by Meetup.com we already have meetings at least twice a month, online presence, etc... so why change it if it already works? Thje group is Meetup.com sponsored, and has it's limitations.
The Meetup group was free, but now charges, so I am the only person paying, which is fine, but being that it is a Meetup, the infrastructure is not exactly designed for creatives, the site is not flexible, we can not add portfolios, and other desired features required/desired by creatives, so we a building a new site, presence, etc from scratch. This is what I need the research for, so as you mentioned earlier Dan, I should pay for research, etc. Well not an option.

the one thing that bothers me about stock photography ... and now I'm generalizing ... is how it appears that all people are beautiful and have time to do 3 hours of yoga per day.

Most groups only like being "described" (critiqued) by people from within the group. It's a defensive mechanism.

BTW, why isn't anybody bringing up the always-wear-black thing? :-) To be fair though, this hangout is more for type designers, not graphic designers... and the dress code of type designers seems harder to figure out. Personally, I try to wear shades of gray as much as possible.

hhp

Good thing he didn't ask this about a year ago, then we could have responded that most designers are in touch with their inner children.

And.... it's not about wearing black, it's about creating notan.

>how dare you put a grande artiste in a box!
Even one that wants to put other people in boxes.

Hrant, why do you feel the need to occasionally act like a jerk?

>BTW, the Typophile icon does not need to be square.

"Maximum dimensions are 60x60"
So yes, it can be rectangular, as several do, but most artistes prefer a slightly larger canvas, and the square suggests possibilities.

Nick, where is Hrant allegedly being a jerk this time?

> why do you feel the need to occasionally act like a jerk?

I don't want you to feel lonely?

> the square suggests possibilities.

If you want your image as big as possible. You know, commensurate with your Stratospheric Talent. And actually, the size limit is not enforced. See the Hairy 11, and the guy in the turtleneck.

The problem, of course, is Modernism (and I suffer from it too).

hhp

See, there's another stereotype, that Hrant will act like a dick.

Lets get back to the sterotypes. I live in Manhattan in the upper east side and only wear black when I don my running shorts and never use sunglasses and I'm a male. Other people describe yourselves and the poster will get the idea we are not cookiecuter steriotypes.

i'm a white guy with an afro. does that help?

seriously.

Although not of these people are graphic designers, here are your type people...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karlfrankowski/28686122/in/pool-typecon/

...no polo-necks, not much black, with the exception of Matthew a bunch of scruffs* really. A group in dire need of "Queer Eye for the Font Guy."

Cheers, Si

*Fortunately myself and David Berlow were cropped otherwise the standard would have been even lower.

The designer look. Less is more and pragmatic. Often creatives of the male species often have very short hair. When doing an all nighter all the time a hair style that requires little maintenance or adjustment for apperance sake seem practical and from my experience often a common look of creatives at least in the northwest. It is the same in other countries and the rest of the US?

Thank goodness this short hair stereotype is ignored! ;^)

now about that short hair thing. . . There are a few of us here who have our hair short by attrition :-)

ChrisL

Well I have a feeling that Tiffany's comment is directed at my hair specifically. It is where all my design power lies. Thanks Tiff. If you haven't seen that doo check out the flickr pool.

I don't wear black. My hair is dark enough.

I have long hair. I rarely wear black. I'm more of an earth tone guy. Don't know why some are getting offended, I'm a designer and don't consider this offensive at all. Its fun to look at stereotypes. One that has yet to be mentioned: judgemental. Designers can be very judgemental, the profession kind of asks for it.

Dan, no offense at this statement...but being a white male designer living on the Upper East Side is already a stereotype, though I think that's the joke.

I HATE indie rock BTW, and love metal. I do however, have cravings for fried chicken and watermelon, but never usually at the same time. :)

I listen to opera and eat Souvlaky :-) I wear black for a joke (like at the typecon party). Wasn't he Johnny Cash look a 90's thing? I don't do tatoos.

Oh, and Terry, I am a white male living in a suburban town but I do eat watermellon and fried chicken at the same time :-) You have not lived until you pick out watermellon seeds with greasy chicken fingers :-P

Terry, I forgot to give you my subway pass before I left--it still had 2 days on it dude! Bummer

ChrisL

"... what the most common perceptions are with regards to designers/creatives- aesthetics, dress code (or lack there of), body language, interaction, sleep patterns, attitude toward life, politics, clients, the law, etc…"

0. zero. people don't think about designers. and they don't care about what they eat; when they sleep etc etc.

>Nick, where is Hrant allegedly being a jerk this time?

So you think I'm an "artiste" too?

Sorry, but sensitive little old me didn't find the negative stereotyping (vain, jealous) in Ole's initial post amusing.

However, I'm quite taken with this:
http://www.adtrophies.com/

The only stereotype I'm aware of for type people, and this is more of a demographic than a stereotypical perception, is that they are disproportionately white and male, compared with the rest of the design profession, and the population at large.

Sibylle Hagmann recently wrote an interesting article on women and type design:
http://vcj.sagepub.com/current.dtl

"Sibylle Hagmann recently wrote an interesting article on women and type design:"

hey, what are you doing :) that was my next thread...

So we have the "type" stereotype as: defensive metropolitan white thin skinned balding men in poor physical shape. Who better for the job?

>poor physical shape

You can't have seen the dancefloor at TypeCon.

> So you think I’m an “artiste” too?

The thing is, you obviously think so (even if you insist on using "artisan", "craftsman" or some other more politically correct term to mean it), and that's of course why you keep acting offended! That and you enjoy it.

> The only stereotype I’m aware of for type people

Type people, really nobody cares about. Graphic designers very much are in the public perception. And I'm sure that's what Ole is considering here. Focus. Always lacking. I guess it's too macho.

hhp

I'm not proud, and basically sterotypical.
I'm just a nerdy looking typographer!

-----------------------------------------
Yes, I'm old, but I'm back in style!

I'll add my "ehw" here because your stereotypes are so superficial that they make your whole approach seem shallow. I don't understand the need for the hair color, clothing preference, stereotypes. When I get a client brief suggesting that middle-aged moms will be the target user I don't ask what color their hair is (unless it's related to the product!) or what they eat for breakfast (unless it's relevant!). I ask broader questions like how they shop, what activities occupy their free time, how they get their information, what is their income level. Do they make decisions for others. Et cetera.

I'd be more interested in the deeper stereotypes about designers. For example(s):

Why do designers put celebrity designers on pedestals believing they can do no wrong? (Maybe we don't. I can think of plenty of examples where celebrities work is heartily critiqued, just not by any major design organizations.)

Why do designers (who presumably try to help others change) have a difficult time with change themselves? (We're riding a bandwagon or two like most people we criticize.)

Why do most designers seem to lean leftward in their politics? (Do they really think politically or do they just want to question the status quo because it's hip or because it's what "good" liberals have done since the sexual revolution?)

When asked why designers want to succeed in design, why is the answer often "fame"? (Is it because answering "money" is unrealistic?)

As for me, I haven't worn all black since. Geez. Since like 2001. =)

Alchion, you're asking the wrong crowd here.

There's a distinction between the cultural stereotype of any given group, and the perception of the characteristics of a specific group by a group member. The latter is usually quite diffuse, because:
a. members know their own groups quite well and have a sophisticated, many-facetted view of that group
b. people are almost never member of one and only one social category. So they're not often going to think of themselves solely as stereotypical members of said social category, because in the image of oneselve, other categories "interfere" and add to the self-image
c. not only the image of a social category that one is a member of is diffuse, and gets more blurry around the edges, so is the actual category itself (perhaps with the exception of male-female, and even then...)
d. all of the above.

Then, on the other hand, there's the social stereotype which is often very shallow, cliché, etcetera. The social stereotype is well known to practically all members of the culture in which the stereotyped group lives, and because of that, and all the stuff I mentioned above, it's better to ask non-group members about the stereotype than group members.

Final remark: stereotyping in marketing campaigns often leads to the target (stereotyped) group being hurt, or dismissing the campaign as being shallow. I wish you much subtlety and humour, and I'm curious about the result ;-)

I totally agree with Joe. Forget the shallow stereotypes. There is really a big difference between graphic designers and typographers (mostly found on this site).

I'm a Dutch graphic designer and typographer, so I can't really judge about the mentality in America. I would say here in Holland we have two kinds of designers; the ones that want to be in the foreground, and the ones that just love what they do and don't need to be in the foreground.
The ones that want to be in the foreground dress 'different', need their own little personality to be most shiny, feel that they are the middle point of any party and know everything better just because they are a designer. I don't know many of them personally, I just see them from the outside. So perhaps I'm also wrong with my judgement. :-)
The other group is not that unnormal from most people. Perhaps clothing wise you would not directly identify them as a designer. But if you look carefully the magic is in the details. That pants are just a bit more special, those glasses just have a different shape and his/her voice is just a bit more loud.

I don't feel offended at all by the earlier comments. I think your not that far off if you describe my first group of designers. Fortunately there are not that many of them out there.

In general I would say:

Designer love: beautifull things, to be trendsetters, to be innovative, to talk to fellow-creatives about what they do, to make the world a better and more beautifull place and to get paid while doing that.

Designers hate: stereotypes (unless they can use it for their work), not being understood, financial arguments with the client, rainy days and advertising agencies.

I hope this helps...

®ené

Also tired of Helvetica? Get an Insider with more personality

*** www.characters.nl { Typography to express yourself } ***

>The thing is, you obviously think so (even if you insist on using “artisan”, “craftsman” or some other more politically correct term to mean it), and that’s of course why you keep acting offended! That and you enjoy it.

Hrant, I'm really fed up with your crap.
I've asked you repeatedly to stop analyzing and insulting me, and yet you continue to do so. Do you really think it's cool to call someone an artiste?
I AM offended, I DON'T enjoy it: once more, PLEASE don't analyze my motives or call me names.

I wasn't offended either, and I think designers definately have bigger ego's than, um, 'ordinary' people. And I can relate to what Rene says about attention to details (and advertising agencies, LOL).
I do wear quite a lot of black. But than again, I already did that before I even thought about being a designer, so I'm not sure it means anything.

Wait, don't all designers wear bunny ears? Now I'm really embarrassed.

Joe,
There may be a few designers who hold visibly successful designers up as "Rock Stars" but that is true of any profession (Boot-licking is an old established custom.). Like most designers, I have labored in anonymity for my entire career. I feel I have done some very good work as well as some in the more odoriferous category. Like most designers, I have my opinions about the assorted "Rock Stars" in our field--some I hold in great esteem simply because I admire their work. There are other "Rocky-horror Stars" whom I perceive as quite ordinary in their work and I say so if the subject arises. I don't feel it appropriate to name names here and begin a "Sucks / Doesn't Suck" list. I think what we see (and what starts stereotypes) is that the most vociferous (read obnoxious) boot lickers in our profession ooze praise with such a phony veneer that we remember those people above all the many others who just go about their business. In a crowded subway car, we remember the guy who hasn't had a shower in a month, not the rest of the people along for the ride. We really don't "know" what designers as a group feel. We only have heard opinions stated by others. We can create self-fulfilling prophesies by only recognizing designers who fit the narrow stereotype and ignoring those who don't. Perhaps what we need is a comedian like Jeff Foxworthy who has a routine where he asks "How do you know if you are a redneck?" and then gives answers involving trucks, beer, trailer parks, and NASCAR:-)

ChrisL

Much better posts, today.
As you were.

hhp

Mr. Sørensen;

if you are quite serious about your research into stereotypical profiles of "designer/creatives," one generally doesn't ask the focused group what "characterizes" them, n'est pas? (stereotypical use of foreign language clichés).

Stereotypes are often utilized by writers of television programs to quickly introduce ancilliary characters thus avoiding unnecessary character development.

So, a good place to research commonly perceived caricatures is to turn on the boob-tube (no, not porn videos).

For instance:

CSI (plus NY and Miami) victims in morgue

Interior designers - 2

Antique collectors - 5

Hair stylists - 1

Washed up actors - 3

Typographers - 0

LOST! survivors of plane crash

Doctors - 1

Ex-Military Middle-Eastern - 1

Recovering drug addict Rock Star - 1

Obligatory Asians - 2 (husband & wife)

Obligatory Afro-Americans - 2 (father & son)

Type Designer on flight back from TypeCon - 0

Sopranos business owned by mob

Exoctic Dancer Bar - 1

Sausage & Butchery - 1

Race horses - 1

Sporting Goods Store - 1

Type Foundries - 1

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Yes, I'm old, but I'm back in style!

Off-Topic: You might be a Designer if:
You admire the type in Campell's Alphabet Soup...
Oh those delicously rounded san serifs!

Back On-Topic: My Two Cents:
Designers are fiercely overprotective of big ideas. They will champion them at all costs... Very detail-oriented; "I wonder what type of wood grain is on that workstation desktop?"... Specifics are everything to them: the visual look of gloss inks, the tactile feel of certain papers, the correct usage of typography... For most modern designers, their life is married into technology. It's an arranged marriage, but they accept it. Most designers that I know are very technologically literate... The designer stereotypes that I pick up on the most are always the ones on the edge of trendiness: VW/mini driving, coffee smoking, fashionistas. (I'd argue that this is a learned behavior)... Designers love seeing good design work, and will let people know about it, "Did you see the execution of that commercial!?!"...

I hope this helps out, just off the top of my head. Cheers. - Aron

"Type Foundries - 1"

Perhaps this guy was either smuggling drugs in job cases or using lead to weigh down the guys "Swimmin wit da fishes"
:-)

I see your point though, there isn't much exposure of designers to the TV world. When people ask what I do and I answer "Graphic Design," I get a confused look and the reply, "...and what exactly is that?"
Before we become stereotyped by the media, we need to be on their radar. Right now we are a faint blip about as visible as a Stealth Bomber;-)

ChrisL

PS: you left out the Lawyers and resturant owners bodycount :-)

PS: you left out the Lawyers and resturant owners bodycount :-)

True, but I thought they too often the butt of jokes.

As for other "creative characters" used on TV, I totally forgot about one of Jim Carey's early appearances as the cartoon artist on "Duck Factory."

I guess this demonstrates the type truly is invisible, and so are those who put their lives into it.

But the truth is... I just as soon stay off the radar. I wouldn't want to be "racially profiled" and get falsely arrested for overusing swash characters.

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Yes, I'm old, and I'm lovin' it... sort of!

some really good posts. the ones that i like most are those that show that what really share is more inward, less outward. kind of a set of values as in "designers love ___, designers hate ___." this line of thinking is also present in joe's and aron's posts. i think if you're targeting creatives you're better off focusing on work-related values rather than outward fluff which is harder to stereotype.