>It’s insecure, trendy, >And don’t forget the requisite swoosh! Would buyers give it a second look without this marketing plan?
I personally prefer the original logo (with coloured stripes). –Jacques
Keep in mind Apple has changed its focus (Yet again) It originally had software that they abandened, focusing on hardware, now its focus is as much on software as hardware. It has alieniated Adobe but Adobe wants to be Mircrosoft. So we have all this marketing and not alot of substance coming out of Apple. Sad
>not alot of substance coming out of Apple. Sad What substance would you like to see Apple come out with?
Heh, I was talking to someone on IRC who works for an Apple call centre. He said this about a week ago, and I just remembered it, had to go scour my log for it. Thought it was quite apropos: <mnkyangst> I don’t think my company knows who the we want anymore. We lost the schools when Dell outsupported us. We lost the sound engineers and DTP people when we switched to OS X and ProTools and Quark didn’t. We lost the gays when we took the rainbow out of our logo.
»What substance would you like to see Apple come out with? Well, I’ve never used a Mac, but I’d be willing to give it a go if they could come up a with something approaching the spec of a PC for the same price. So the substance I’d like to see would be, say, 75% of the spec that I can get from a PC. That might persuade me to try a Mac, then I might ﬁnd out what all the fuss is about.
>approaching the spec of a PC for the same price. speed, memory, graphics? http://www.apple.com/g5processor/
In fact the best-looking computer I’ve ever owned was a Dell laptop (but an older one): it was petite, with minimal curves, and a somber gray. And rock solid in construction. A stoic road warrior. Not a singing bard with a fancy hat. hhp
The $2,000 you lose with a dumb decision to ? Go Mac ? pays for itself pretty quick. Singing bards with fancy hats* are all the rage on the weekend birthday-party circuit.
I’m puzzled by the diﬀerent design directions Apple is taking between the computer case and the interface/logo. The G5 case is minimalist, moving away from the G3 to G4 trend that saw increasing bloatedness (that’s right the Mascara Snake, fast and bulbous..) However, the OS interface and logo are still stuck in puﬀyland. I would expect future Apple graphics to go retro simple.
>the petition to stop it … …Update — last checked at numba 1427
» Oh pleeeaaaaseee… I told you I was oversimplifying. :P »The only cool thing about Apple… Singing bards with fancy hats
>and now for the Dell PC
>It has been proven by Dell that hyperthreaded Intel are faster and the next gen of AMD 64bit Processors will make G5 and P4 look slooow and old. Where? [Gaaaa, sorry for the double post <:-} ]
I’m sorry, but as mac user/owner, who uses a PC at work I must say that comparing a mac to pc is like comparing an Aston Martin to a Ford Focus
Are you comparing mac to a V12 or D87?
So the eMac is only slightly more expensive than a Dell with half the processor, half the hard drive and half the memory (and slower memory). And that doesn’t include the fact that Dell are nowhere near the best value PC’s, or that the eMac saddles you with a 17” monitor. Recent purchase: 2.40GHz Athlon 80 GB 7200 UDMA HDD 1 GB DDR RAM ATI Radeon 9000 graphics 6 channel sound Pinnacle Pro TV tuner/capture Sony DVD Sony CD CDR/RW Iiyama 19” ﬂat screen monitor usb x 6, ﬁrewire x 2, bluetooth network, modem, keyboard, mouse, case, cooling etc etc
Oh no! I’m missing a PC/Mac debate! There is no way it should have taken them so long to develop a Unix based operating Umm…Unix has been around for 25 years now? Longer? And it ﬁnally took Apple to develop a usable, clean GUI to Unix. KDE is getting close to the same goal, but they’ve taken the ‘let’s copy windows as best we can’ approach instead of trying something new. Not nearly as succesful. As for the platform wars, there’s interesting, outdated arguments coming from both sides. Wintel fans still claim that the price diﬀerence amongh the platforms is gigantic, and Mac fans still claim that the Mac is much easier to use. Neither are really true anymore. They’re simply diﬀerent OSes that pretty much do the same thing for the most part. As far as I am concerned, it’s all been downhill since the C-64 ;o)
> As far as I am concerned, it’s all been downhill since the C-64 ;o) No joke, dude, no joke. Not to mention the Amiga. The 4000 could (can?) do full-screen real-time animation in crispy 18-bit about ten years ago,and the “lowly” 1000 back in ‘86 had a true preemptive multi-tasking operating system. It was too good to become popular. hhp
It was too good to become popular Like some typographers m.
one more thing; this one goes back to Hrant’s comments a bit up the thread (sorry, I haven’t been following lately). the beneﬁt of a one-button, “counter-intuitive” mouse is that it allows you to use your whole hand to depress the button, thus reducing repetitive stress. I speak from experience, though I’m still using a multi-button here at work. and as for “downgrading” to the single-button again, it was no more diﬃcult for me than going the other direction.
To me, there is no PC/Mac debate. It’s just tools, and since the software is basically the same, it’s all just a matter of taste anyway. Both operating systems have massive faults, and I for one woul dbe happy to see something sleek and completely new come along that feels like InDesign felt compared to Quark. The porice, however, is not an argument. The kind of hardware you need for a really good system makes Mac and PC almost equally expensive. My machine is in the 17.500 Euro range, and a really nicely tuned-up G5 would be in the same range. It really boild down to what you’re used top and what you feel more comfortable with. I still stand by the Umberto Eco comment that Mac is catholic and PC is protestant :-).
HD: Ok recent systems I justy put together for my ﬁrm: P4 3gig with HT 4 gigs of Dual Channel ram serial ata raido array, 320 gigs at 10,000 rpm audigy 2 platinum with breakout box and ﬁreGL cards dual viewsonic 22” professional series monitors ohh and the klipsch 2.1 sound systems Thought you might appreciate that ;) Im stoked. all at around 3,000 per machine. The new serial ATA drive are VERY cool. as fast (almost) as SCSI drives. hildebrant. P.S. not too mention the fun of having all your employees get together and have a “computer building party” over night, with cocktails and such.
And here I was thinking you’re not a geek. hhp
Links from Wired (great magazine BTW): Apple iDolatry & PC Mods.
Steve Jobs: “Victory in our industry is spelled survival. The way we’re going to survive is to innovate our way out of this… “Every time we’ve brought innovation into the marketplace, our customers have responded — strongly. We only have to attract 5 out of the other 95 people who use PCs to switch, and Apple doubles its market share.” Time magazine, January 14 2002
I prefer the mac, but it cannot compete when it comes to computer gaming. Anyway, they’re 2 diﬀerent tools. They match and mismatch in many ways. What I want to know is why do people seem so eager to devote their mind and spirit to a corporation or corporations they know very little about? Believe me, if your opinion of a company is based on its website and its products, you have a very incomplete picture. To swerve back to the topic (sort of): What’s so wrong about a given company using a chrome look to their mark, particularly Apple, if it also works in B/W, etc.? Is there something inherently wrong about it? Again, I think that Apple has a pretty distinct look (as a whole) and some very strong brand management. They are a consumer-oriented, image-conscious electronics manufacturer/ software developer. Why would they keep their image (which I consider to be a subset of their brand) static? Look at Nike. Their logo gets used in all sorts of materials and colors, but the Swoosh is still the Swoosh. I think the same goes for the Apple. The surface changes, but the mark endures. I understand the disdain for shiny, swooshy crap, but most of those low-grade redesigns often accompany a total brand overhaul and a total re-shaping of their mark. Apple has remained very controlled compared to many corporations. I think that’s probably why we freak out every time they tweak (redress) the logo or change the typeface (What is it, once so far?. It’s hard to be innovative and consistent at the same time. Most of the objections I’ve read are high-minded design concerns that ignore the practicalities of business and focus on a conceptual level, or are a general reaction to sheep-like actions of large corporations (which is hardly shocking). Consumers still know Apple, still recognize the mark, and Apple still looks contemporary. What other visual brand concerns should they, as a corporation, have?
> Is there something inherently wrong about it? It’s culturally bankrupt. Sexy Robot was in the 70s. Hey, just like ITC Garamond! :-/ hhp
Everything old, is new again. The world is awash in a cornucopia of styles. The puppy is chasing his own tail trying to stay ahead of himself, or to catch himself, depending on how you look at it. It almost seems a waste of time to discuss something looking dated.
Okay, concerining the logo, I think the titanium look ain’t that bad, except for that weird swoosh they added to give it more texture. It won’t last long, but I could envision that Apple develops a kind of living logo that changes with the look of the machines, while maintaining the apple shape. It could be neat and it would ﬁt the company.
HD are you suggesting a furry apple like panther fur perhaps.
> the slobering masses Exactly. “Consumer culture”, an oxymoron. Any of us who pretend otherwise are letting their brand loyalty get in the way. hhp
I guess I came a bit late, but anyway: >Check out the new LaCie drives designed by Porsche >design. There is no mistaking the G5 inspiration. (I’m not >saying LaCie is copying Apple… Who could blame them >for dumping their beige plastic for buttery metal.) I doubt they were even inspired by the G5 since the drives were released months before the G5. >
Logos are supposed to stand for something. When a company changes the very way they graphically represent their ﬁrm, I ﬁnd it usually represents a fundamental change in what the company is all about. It’s an indicator. Anyway, didn’t Apple always have a suitable 1-color version of their logo? darrel: at my work we have one Mac, many PCs, a few Suns, and even a bunch of Commodores (64s — but also SuperPets) that all run everyday. It’s a living computer museum.
Graham, thanks for the corrections on both counts. ___ Re: Apple’s new chrome logo I had a good laugh at Christopher’s comment. “What can chrome do for you?” As if Apple needs a swoosh to be a modern company. But why are you all acting surprised? This isn’t news, it’s their status quo. The fact that Apple is going with a chrome logo is nothing new. It is true to what they’ve always done on both their hardware and software sides. Hardware: Beige boxes had the rainbow. The blue and white boxes got a transparent blue plastic apple. The recent PowerBooks have solid white ones. Software: Mac OS 7 had a rainbow “Apple Menu” logo. Mac OS X has a blue plastic looking logo. The new one apparently will look like chrome instead of plastic. ___ Re: The logo changes in general. Does Burton still change theirs annually? That’s something IBM and FedEx can’t do. Kudos to them for knowing how to break the rules.
designers in the action sport industry play by their own rules anyway…the ones I’ve met or worked with are generally rebels who get high on their own innovations. Some get high in other ways, too. Being diﬀerent is a badge of honor. Quiksilver recently revamped… Pop quiz: what rebel is responsible for this?
Carson? Sagmeister? Vignelli? (hehe! only kidding)
Dunno…reminds me of this, though:
Yes, David Carson. He’s Art Director at Quiksilver.
Joe, come on — you’ve always lambasted the swoosh. Don’t be such an Apple apologist. > Yes, David Carson. He’s Art Director at Quiksilver. How convenient that they misspell their name! hhp
Quiksilver is tres nice. I never said I liked the chrome, nor the swoosh. It’s the Apple mark at its worst. (The only thing worse is the furry X.) All I’m saying is we shouldn’t be surprised.
> XP is ugly and bloated. You can simply change that by hacking a bit and changing some stuﬀ. And, sadly, the blue-pill-Apple look isn’t so sleek either. Here’s hoping both companies give more power to the user in future. At least with XP you can completely and utterly alter the surface and look/feel of the OS with tools like WindowBlinds. That should be a given with XP itself, but at least there is a tool for it :-D. >Commodores (64s — but also SuperPets) Oh, that’s cool. I noticed today at a meeting how many designers refer to their career by mentioning old hard- and software. Which version of Pagemaker, or which Mac/PC you started with, or even if you started pre-Computer, it obviously kinda sticks in your mind. quiksilver looks oddly un-Carson in a way of looking too much like Carson, if that makes sense — more like a student imitating David. It has the superﬁcial look, but doesn’t feel like his Ray Gun stuﬀ, it’s just visual, not really
>I personally prefer … (with coloured stripes). Well that logo lost the war in the U.S.
This topic always makes me laugh. PC vs Mac. What you buy is not just Hardware but Software as well. I would gladly pay the extra for OS X. It creams everything out there in terms of stability and ease of use.
I am usuary of the PC since I went to this of the microcomputers. First I had a spectrum 128 (although always I dreamed about commodore 64… soon I dreamed about a friend 500 :P). I have worked with mac and I think that except for some diﬀerences they are almost the same. Use my PC to design and the programs are such in both platforms. If somebody sees abysmal diﬀerences it is that it has a ﬂuid mentality little. The only reason by that I reframe to me to buy mac whenever I update my PC is that servants RIP of the presses are all mac. Due to this and to ﬁlosoﬁa (radical) of MAC servants RIP understand better documents created in MAC. Dream with the day in which the OS X can install in a PC, or its defect, that MAC lowers the prices of their computers until the level of a PC any. Please, we do not compare the prices of a MAC with a DELL, I speak of PC without mark, that work just as one of mark and you the sums to your pleasure. ODA (sorry for my english) powered by google translator ”””””””””” Soy usuario de PC desde que me pas
A six-color logo is as impractical as a transparent/chromed one. Focus goups and Photoshop ﬁlters are usurping craft.
Personally, I quite like the less swoop-y version with the shine to it. It was in line with their hardware, and still simple enough to accommodate the diﬀerent colors (for cases and product lines). I think apple strove and continues to strive for 1) sleek, diﬀerent, elegant hardware 2) friendly, simple print design. Their interface design is trying to reﬂect both of these and, unfortunately, sometimes forgets its place in the process. However, I think that ITC Garamond Tall ‘n’ Fat and Myriad match(ed) Apple’s desires. I’m sure that they aren’t the most typo-rigorous choices, but they have other concerns. At least they didn’t use Gill Sans, which is _everywhere_ in the US for corporations whose creative directors don’t want to actually make a decision concerning their identity/ branding. Believe me, Apple is in the upper echelons compared to some of the obscene ‘style guides’ I’ve seen. One major medical company actually stipulates “san serif” for headlines and “serif” for body copy! PS: The packaging for the old iPod was brilliant, and is a great example of what keeps a lot of people loyal. It even had Myriad on it. And _somehow_ it still worked.