Nick,

The script looks really beautiful. I like both the rough and clean styles. Since it's thicker than a lot of scripts it would be perfect for setting logos, and lots of other uses too, of course.

Sorry, I can't help you with OpenType, but check out build section for lots of posts on the subject.

Thanks for your comments. Here's some more.

I will take you up on your offer Paul.

'Bezier wrangler' - like it!

Nick Cooke

This looks excellent, as stated above it's a very hand-crafted/familiar feel to it. Not an easy task!

Nick, this is really lovely.

I can imagine that if I were to design a script typeface I would also have a difficult time knowing when to stop.

If anything your suggestion to make some swashier lowercase alternates to pair with the swash uppercase is a good idea. I feel like the lowercase doesn't quite match the swash uppercase, but a few alts would go very far in mending that.

Nick, if you could incorporate "mistakes" (not just irregularity, variance and errant ink) using OT then you'd be breaking the one true barrier blocking type from looking -sufficiently, if not truly- like handwriting.

hhp

Typos (so to speak), crossed-out stuff, scruntching to fit lines, etc.
I have an article somewhere that goes pretty deeply into the types of mistakes people make when writing.

The hard part I think might be simulating randomness. I know that PS code has/had something like that. But if there's no random function available, sufficient complexity (like making contextual decisions based on multiple and/or non-obvious criteria) can appear random.

hhp

Oh man...

hhp

So it should be an OCR-ed thing, right? What a pain...

Here's an idea: I'll snailmail you a photocopy of it, and
you can do the rest. Since you're the one who asked... :->

But wait, what about copyright? It's from Visible Language.
Oh, I know: email them and ask for permission. Yeah, you. :->

hhp

My Excel doc of the VL index doesn't show
it for some reason, so off to the garage I go...

hhp

Looking very good Nick! Glad to see you ended your writers block after a year :-)

ChrisL

Including mistakes is a good idea Hrant - these can be inserted in the text using the glyphs palette. There are 8 lengths of deletion lines which can be placed over entire words, and a fair bit of other mess.

Nick Cooke

"I’ve just realised - Is that another of your groan-inducing puns? ;^P"

Only the last part about writers block. I really do think you have done some sweet work on this and that part is no joke!

ChrisL

Here's some more swash lower case characters to add to the mix:

Nick Cooke

I've been thinking about these and I think they are too much. It's starting to look a bit silly. A bit of restraint is needed. I'm going to re-do them to rein them in a bit.

I noticed the first post of this thread saying I'd finished the Rough style - Ha! what WAS I thinking?

I'm glad you think it looks hand-written. That's what I was trying to achieve with my first 2 scripts ITC Dartangnon and Gizmo, but I didn't have the technology then.

Nick Cooke

Improved. :^)

How will you approach combinations such as that in "Dea(r M)iss?" The way the r and M still bump I mean. Will you do a little replacement or are you going to delve that deeply?

How are you going about implementing these? I don't know the technology to tell how to do it, but I'm familiar enough to know that stylistic sets could help you. (I'm being redundant. Apologies.)

A clean and rough version of this would be nice as well. I'll go find my pom-poms so I can cheer you on. ;^)

Although, I'm not offering in critcism...just wanted to say that this typeface is GORGEOUS and I can't wait to see it completed!

I too need to learn aboutr Kerning classes. But from what I understand I agree with Tiff they could save you GOBS of time. Then you might actually have time for the errata.

And like everybody else - I agree it's a sweet face!

It sounds like you got your contexual altrenates happening. Yes?

Here's a pdf of the final typeface;

.... or would be. How do I import it?

Nick Cooke

Thanks William – see above.

Nick Cooke

"finishing off now, and with a pdf of instructions for use"

If you think through the substitutions, alternates and default behavior, and get some assistance with the OpenType programming, instructions won't be necessary. You can definitely add dozens of alternates and ligatures, because I agree those will make this design all the more convincing and fluid, but it's unrealistic to think people will carefully select alternates. Wouldn't it really kick kiester to provide 2 or 3 different "states" or conditions? Consider offering stylistic variations like Formal, Casual, Feverish, Passionate. You set up the alternates and ligatures that create those different effects, and any user can choose which one is suitable for their copy, as a simple OpenType feature choice.

One reason for this is that if you offer all the swash letters as a single option, you get a mess. It's likely to never look very good if all the swashes always appear together; and as you've already noticed, it really looks cool when you judiciously add a few swashes here and there. That would only be possible if you control what happens with each user choice. If you want assistance in setting up OT feature code, I suggest contacting Tal Leming or the House Industries gang; they have done great work setting up automatic substitutions, and I really think this design will be fully realized only with a lot of OpenType enhancement. I really like it, and I encourage you not to try to finish it too hastily.

"Finished" is neither "perfect" nor "good enough".

Carl - I was thinking only of simple 'turn this option on and you get this' type of instructions. There are already dozens of alternates and ligatures which don't need to be carefully selected - they are standard replacement ligatures, even the swash variations.

A lot of 'designers' (these are seniors and art directors in London - and I'm not saying that London is the creative hub of the world either) haven't even heard of OpenType. Just that there is a lot of ignorance in this profession.

I'll think about what you say anyway.

Consider offering stylistic variations like Formal, Casual, Feverish, Passionate. – sounds like a good idea.

Thanks.

Nick Cooke

Ah, then you are really talking about a specimen, which I fully encourage. Definitely keep the options simple to use. Looks like we understand the user similarly. It's not just London where OpenType is still a foreign concept. ;) I just don't want you to miss opportunities for each of the options to be compelling, distinct, interesting, memorable, and especially, believable as handwriting. Your design is so vivacious, and there haven't been any really compelling, loose handwriting faces with all those bells and whistles, and yours could be the first one! Again I say, it's worth the extra fuss.

Here are some other names you could consider for different states:

Humble Servant (very regular)
Wish You Were Here (more casual)
To My Dearest (gushingly, yet tastefully ornate, maybe add flowers, birds?)
Mad Genius (violent spatters)
Admiral Bombast (excessive ornate swashes, since sometimes this is what's wanted)
Beat Generation (spatters, fingerprints, coffee rings, etc)

Continue having fun.

here haven’t been any really compelling, loose handwriting faces with all those bells and whistles, and yours could be the first one!

not to take away from what nick has done here, which is wonderful, but do you really feel this way? Surely Dear Sarah or Ministry Script must qualify???

Nick, did you get my reply to your e-mail?