code name = Diplom

paul d hunt's picture

i'm having troubles with my script lower case. big thanks go to anyone who can make some pointers.

i can't seem to attach a pdf, so hopefully the gif sample is large enough.

William Berkson's picture

I've never tried this, but it looks to me like the weights on your verticals don't balance. The f and p a much heavier than the left of the n. Why is the right of the n so much lighter? etc.

paul d hunt's picture

thnx, william. can you expound on your etc.? :^D

paul d hunt's picture

okay, i tweaked it a bit and tried to balance out the weight distribution. what did i miss?

dave bailey's picture

The weight distribution looks better in this version. I know it's all part of the stylistic script face you're creating but is there any way to further differentiate the _k_ from the _h_ ? They're pretty similar right now with a slight weight difference in the right most downstroke, but when this gets reduced will you be able to tell? My $0.02

paul d hunt's picture

LOL. sorry the k actually IS an h. i'll fix that once i get my other problems ironed out. >^P
Thanks for your $.02, though, Dave.

William Berkson's picture

First, this is a definite improvement. Going through it in detail will be WORK. But generally speaking: I would look at how the x-height verticals balance with the ascenders, how the ascending loops balance with the straight strokes, and again the balance of eg the left and right side of the n.

Two more general points. Scripts have their logic, and I know the copperplate style has its own pen logic. And then you will decide where you want to violate pen logic. Eg I think pen logic would make the right of the n at least as heavy as the left. I don't know enough about the history of scripts to be of any use, but studying the best of formal scripts, like Bickham and Snell Roundhand I'm sure will tell you a lot.

Finally do you know 'Fonts and Logos' by Doyald Young? He is mind-blowingly good at getting even color in scripts and logos, and the book discusses a lot of this. This book taught me that it really pays off to be very fussy about this stuff, as it makes all the difference in the polish of your final result.

claes's picture

maybe i'm just tired, but at first i thought both samples were slightly rotated clockwise.. i even had to check to make sure they really weren't. they still look rotated though, which i can't remember having seen before.. at least not that much. i'm not sure if that's any valid critique, but i thought i'd mention it in case that's not a desired optical effect. it may just be me being tired though..

anyway, other things.. the loops in the l, b, d, f, etc. don't seem to connect with the line coming from the previous letter.. see below. also, the q feels a bit like the odd man out with no loop at all and the thin line not connecting to it, and the line connecting to the u curving.. let me show you what i mean.

jselig's picture

Forgive me for asking if I'm just tired but is there a _k_ in the alphabet sample?

The only thing(s) that really jumps out at me is the _p_, the bowl lacks definition to me. The ascender also seems to protrude a tad high. Also the up stroke on the _q_ tail seems a bit too bent and the top of the a is a tad flat/long. Granted I've never done this so I commend you for your great work and effort. Just my humble 2¢.

Miss Tiffany's picture

This typeface takes a lot of ignoring what you know. The first time Paul showed it to me I had this knee-jerk reaction and asked him with the strokes were so out of balance. After playing with it for a while I've really come to enjoy it. It is quirky -- for my modern eyes -- but that was the spencerian style which we no longer have with us today.

Paul, what exactly is giving you fits?

I see what you are saying, Claes, but I think the irregularity was part of the style. They could twist and bend and flare the nib to do all kinds of crazy things.

claes's picture

i think it needs to be more noticably irregular if that's the desired effect though.. now it just looks a bit off and not enough to really show that it's meant to be irregular.

the same goes for the q.. if it's the only letter where there's the broken line it doesn't really feel like it's part of the style.. maybe you could do the same with the lines for the b, d, f, etc. too? have the thin line go up the back of those letters, without connecting to them.

William Berkson's picture

>knee-jerk reaction

Ok,both my knees were jerking! Paul, seeing your new Zaner and Allyson--Congratulations!--I see in Zaner is possible to unbalance characters in a way that works in the overall look. I tend always to think 'text font' and think things should be balanced to a fare-thee-well, while keeping liveliness. But I see there is another way to go for this kind of font. I don't think you captured it yet here as well as in Zaner, and don't have a clue how to go about it, but good luck!

paul d hunt's picture

thanks for the congrats. BTW, this IS part of the Zaner set. This is the lower case to Zaner Four. It's meant not to be quite as uptight as most round hands and i think with all your help i got it to a point where i'm happy with it. I'm sure down the road i'll know how to do these kinds of things better, but you live and learn, eh?

degregorio's picture

Paul, incredible work!!!
I dont know if "p" need the ascendent, maybe can seems an "h"

paul d hunt's picture

gracias, juan pablo! this font is now available as noted above as part of the P22 Zaner Set, and i don't forsee making any more changes to it in the near future. However, don't let that keep you from making a critique! I'm sure there are still things i could learn from further comments.

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