Suede

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Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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folks:

would love some feedback on this. not sure about kerning, needs to be wide but perhaps its too wide.

for a niteclub

gracias

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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I think the U would benefit from a similar rounded terminal
treatment as all the other letters.

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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Alrighty.

Here’s the update. Thanks for all your help, I am quite pleased with this.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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I think you might try rounding the tops of the “U”, where it seems frail to boot.

hhp

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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Hrant. Deja vu. That’s what I said in the beginning.

I understand your goal for the straight horizontals, Peter.
But in typography, it always helps to be consistent with
your forms, this includes the ends of strokes, and in a
monolinear, non-calligraphic design like this one, those
terminals should be consistent, regardless of which
direction they are pointing. Otherwise glyphs will stand out,
and if that’s not your intention you end up with a ‘U’ that
distracts rather than contributes to the overall form.

Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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Peter:

I also considered recommending rounding out the ends of the “U”, but if I am not mistaken you did mention that the “U” was to stand out and even stand alone in some applications. For this purpose, I don’t know that it is necessary to duplicate that element of the other letter forms.

Have you tried applying Loren’s suggestions and adding some sort of liquid to the “U”. I believe you also mentioned previously that you would be adding “

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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Stephen,
I totally hear you, and I know exactly what you are talking about. But let’s have a look at the U with terminals. I think that top horizontal loses something. But I will say, now that I have done that the terminals on the U before do look somewhat anemic.

So I think I will now try this:
Keeping the outside of the terminal round, and having flat on the inside. Make sense? What do you guys think?

re:liquid in the glass. I tried that, but it looked cheesy to me. This space will evolve into a restaurant at some point as well, so it needs to be a ‘scalable’ logo—don’t want it to be strictly a drink spot.

Thanks for all your help. I knew this would get better by showing it here, and it is.

Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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That “U” does work quite nicely. Have you tried rounding the interior terminals and keeping the hard corner on the exterior?

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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Tried scotts idea (soften interior of terminal —1.21c). And my idea (exterior of terminal 1.21b)

1.21v_v2 is a more a more drastic curve.

To me, I think it is between, the full rounded terminal, or 1.21b (which might need to be exentuated a bit).

What are your thoughts?

Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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Excuse another poor rendering job, but I wanted to represent what I was trying to convey regarding the “U” terminals. I meant something a little more like this, but refined, of course

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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Scott…thanks for all your examples. You’ve really gone all out here.

So. The rounded terminals it is. Stephen you are right from the beginning on that.

One last issue. I agree that the new D is more in line with U, and in turn unifies the logotype, but it is less inviting/makes the logotype more technoish.

Which direction should I go on the D now that you can see them side by side:

Ignacio Martinez's picture
Joined: 26 Jul 2003 - 11:00am
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You could take a look at Maxpo from CloseFonts (thanks Yves), I think it has a similar feel.

Randy Jones's picture
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Joined: 23 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Hi Peter,

It

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003 - 4:14pm
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The round terminals on the U have made it visually shrink just a bit but I’m nitpicking. Peter, keep closer to your original concept or the next letter you will have to modify is the S and when you are done you will have created Vag Round (Gag)

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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daniel,
original concept as in 1.23, or as in the logotype without the rounded terminals (beginning of thread)?

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003 - 4:14pm
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You know Peter your logo isn’t a typeface and the recommendations you are getting are for a typeface. Instead of thinking of your logo as a word, try thinking of it as a mark. With that in mind which has more impact, what you have now or what you began with. Its somewhere in between in my opinion. Go through the threads and then make your decission.

brian jaramillo's picture
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Joined: 3 Nov 2001 - 11:00am
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Peter, how would it looked tracked tighter?

Just curious. :-)

bj

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Peter, this is for another club, right? What if instead of the rounded, keg like shape … you take the D turn it 90 degrees clockwise, cut the top off and call it a highball? Maybe even slant the sides out a hair and it becomes a shotglass.

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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For clarification, I’m visualizing these wacky suggestions from v1.2 above.

Another thought. I really like the D in v1.2, but everything else is too soft for it. I wouldn’t conform the D, I’d make the other letters conform.

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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hmm…tiffany you made me think of this version…the very first one I did.

no rounded terminals at all.

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Peter, maybe I’m boring, but this one is stronger, for me anyway. What if you flattened the right side of the U, sort of as if it were a lowercase U?

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Maybe, like so? (note: I cannot draw to save myself.)

myversion

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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that’s interesting tiffany…I like it.

I do want to allude to the shape of a glass with the U. not sure if you read this, but they plan on have tumbler glasses made to match the U.

but I may just have to show them an iteration along these lines.

thanks

p.s. that plays off the D quite nicely

JT Helms's picture
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Joined: 24 Oct 2003 - 3:22pm
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I’m not sure it’s the kerning that makes it awkward still. The U seems like such a departure from the character of the other letters. It’s making he space inside the U sort of swell the area it is taking up. It’s such an oddball I want to read it as an icon rather than a letterform, but no visual references come to mind.

Is the U saying something different than the other letters? If not, i’d go ahead and straighten the sides…or bring some of the characteristics of the U you have into the D maybe (might set up some nice rhythm).

What’s the connection you’re working at between the logo you have and the nightclub? Just wondering

-JT

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Oooh, Tiffany’s is it.

hhp

Kyle Hildebrant's picture
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Joined: 7 Jan 2003 - 11:00am
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Peter —

This doesnt happen to be a club in Arizona does it? Just curious.

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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no…it’s in SF

Kyle Hildebrant's picture
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Joined: 7 Jan 2003 - 11:00am
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P.S.
I know you dont have much play in this area, but maybe the arms on the ‘e’ and the ‘s’ could move up just a touch? So the have a little more ‘bottom weight’, this would offset a little of the over-symetrical shape you have going.
Also I love Tiffany’s ‘U’, I think this is really the direction you should take. If you were concerned about a tumbler beeing made after this shape, I think that might even be cool. and asymetrical glass, with a flat side? But maybe I’m crazy. I still say tighten it up a touch, the widely tracked, horizontally skewed logo types are quite cliche for clubs and such. (not to insinuate that yours is :-))

Good work overall. Nice to see some custom lettering done.

Hildebrant.

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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thanks.

I’m presenting these to the owner here in a bit, with my picks being these:



p.s. thanks to everybody, this place is very helpful for solo freelancers of the world

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Oops, Sorry! Didn’t see the glass bit, I just saw it that way. So it was good without me saying a word anyway. :-)

I think you should show them 1.24, not mine. I’m sad you won’t be using your rigid D … especially with the crispity (it’s late) E … Good luck with the presentation.

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003 - 4:14pm
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Peter your final choices are the strongest, good luck.

Jens Giese's picture
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Joined: 23 Oct 2003 - 2:46am
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Peter,

my vote’s for Tiffany’s 1.25 (with a narrower SU kerning as in your 1.24) and — if the glass shape does matter — for your 1.24. (I don’t really like the earlier inconsistency between the round S, E and the sharp U, D.)

Regards
jpg

PS: A straw in the U is just an idea … not in the logo itself (uncool?), but somewhere else, maybe …

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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I think a liquid or a straw might be too cheesy, but what about giving the “U” a stem & base?

hhp

Jens Giese's picture
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Joined: 23 Oct 2003 - 2:46am
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Hrant, I guess you’re right (“cheesy” probably is the word I was searching for — my English vocabulary sometimes limits my ability to express myself).

I was thinking of something stylized …

The straw adds some weight to the U (that the other letters have due to the fact that they all have an, well, “upper bar”). But I don’t know whether I like it … it was just an ad hoc thought.

The U plus stem and base isn’t a bad idea, but it might resemble a Y if not done the right way.

jpg

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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Stephen,
I was aiming to keep the horizontals as flat as possible. The only curves are on the vertical part of the letterforms.

Randy,
It is center. What do you think, should the top whitespace of the s be like 60% and the bottom whitespace of the s be like %40? Or is more of a 55/45 ratio?

JT,
I styled the S after the U and thought I had the D close enough to make it relavent to the other letters, but perhaps the D should not flatten out like it is….I will look into what you are suggesting.

The U is styled after a glass, a thick bottem tumblers glass that the club will incoorporate into it’s glassware. The U will also be used as part of an icon set. But the U will have an olive or a straw or some icecubes in it.

I had the same feeling about the counterform of the U as well, but I think if I straighten up those curves this logotype will loose much of it’s character.

Thanks for your thoughts, fellas. Would like to hear back from you now that you have some more info.

Here’s a bigger version:

Randy Jones's picture
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Joined: 23 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Hi JP.

I’ve been out of the loop. The crossbars are still too low. They should optically look even. Might be 45/55, might be 40/60 you’ve got to trust your eyes.

Randy

Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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Peter:

I am sorry I dont’ have much time right now to illustrate more appropriately what I will reference, but hopefully this will do.

Suede Logo

I like where you are headed overall, and I like the hard corners on the “U”. Rather than morphing the “U” into the other letters I would go the opposite direction. The “U” has the most character of all the letters, so why not let it set the trend. Do as JT suggested and as I have so poorly illustrated

Peter Markatos's picture
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Joined: 17 May 2003 - 11:00am
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Scott,

That’s exactly what I am going to do to the D! Thanks for the illustration, this is going to look much better.

I’ll make adjustments and post this afternoon.

Aloha!

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Scott’s “D” is right on. But the terminals of the “E” have to follow suit.

hhp

Mike M's picture
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Joined: 21 Nov 2003 - 7:43am
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very roughly, altered e’s

loren klein's picture
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Joined: 31 Jul 2003 - 3:08pm
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scott’s version is great. the U and D are closely related, but i think that’s enough. the e’s may be overboard. looks good! how about maybe adding a liquid to the U?