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Yale Design Roman - release to the public?

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Dr. Meyer N. Solny's picture
Joined: 10 Jul 2004 - 10:13pm
Yale Design Roman - release to the public?
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Does anyone know when Matthew Carter's Yale Design Roman will be available to the public?

http://www.yale.edu/universityprinter/typeface/yale_design_roman.html

Many thanks!

John S's picture
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Joined: 8 Sep 2006 - 3:12am
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Apparently never...I've seen it and it's just another Bembo...is there really no bold or bold italic, as it seems on the website?

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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>I’ve seen it and it’s just a knock-off of Bembo

When I read that I almost choked on my latte. You can't say that here!

Carl Crossgrove's picture
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Joined: 8 Sep 2003 - 2:07pm
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John,

Please read up on the Yale Typeface before making any more ignorant comments:

http://www.yale.edu/universityprinter/typeface/typeface.html

There are 5 tabs there to help you understand where the typeface came from. Especially take note of the info in tab 3.

Please also re-consider advising people to enlist students or faculty to help steal unlicensed copies.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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> it’s just a knock-off of Bembo

I thought it was Times. You know, the one with the pointy things at the ends.

hhp

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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As much as I hate to be overtly dramatic that is just plain-old flat-out wrong.

Alexander Kominek's picture
Joined: 10 Dec 2004 - 6:27pm
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I thought it was Times. You know, the one with the pointy things at the ends.

Looks closer to Arial to me...

- Lex

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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BTW, onmy friends computer the Arial is called Helveeta
Now or something......... do anybody pleez tell me WHY?!?!?!

hhp

Alexander Kominek's picture
Joined: 10 Dec 2004 - 6:27pm
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Arial is called Helveeta

Like the cheese?

- Lex

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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>Like the cheese?

Technically it's a "Cheese-flavor product"

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Ah. Helvetica: font-flavored bunch of glyphs.

hhp

Dr. Meyer N. Solny's picture
Joined: 10 Jul 2004 - 10:13pm
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Sorry to have stirred up a tempest.

Certainly am not interested in obtaining the font via students, faculty, etc. but was told some time ago that the font would be available to the public at some point.

Simply was curious if anyone knew when.

paul d hunt's picture
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Joined: 5 May 2005 - 8:44pm
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Apparently never…it’s easier to get someone who studies/works there to download it and share it with you…I’ve seen it and it’s just a knock-off of Bembo…is there really no bold or bold italic, as it seems?

sometimes i wonder what they DO teach in some graphic design programs...

Chris Lozos's picture
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 - 11:00am
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Helveetica, like the cheese, for those who don't know Jack about type :-)

ChrisL

Chris Lozos's picture
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 - 11:00am
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"sometimes i wonder what they DO teach in some graphic design programs…"

Maybe what they teach is just fine. Maybe what some students choose to think is another. Leading a horse to water...

ChrisL

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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>sometimes i wonder what they DO teach in some graphic design programs…

mondoB's site says he's been in the biz for 20 years, so you should edit...

"sometimes i wonder what they DID teach in some graphic design programs…"

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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OK guys, come on, let's not make it impossible for the guy to recant.

hhp

David's picture
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004 - 1:46pm
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You know, the one with the pointy things at the ends.

Honest-to-God conversation I had with my wife a few weeks ago:

Me (presenting some font samples to my wife): What do you think of using one of these fonts for your business logo?

My wife: I don't know. I don't really like those pointy things at the ends.

Me (after a few seconds of trying to figure out what the hell she is talking about): You mean the serifs?

My wife: Yeah.

Me: Good to know. I'll go search for some more fonts.

Chris Lozos's picture
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 - 11:00am
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Don't tell Edel about the wife story :-)

ChrisL

Thomas Binder's picture
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006 - 9:04am
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@adnix
I really had to laugh, fine story, thanks :)

John S's picture
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Joined: 8 Sep 2006 - 3:12am
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Before you all pull on your hooded robes, I should say that I did read all the documentation on the Yale site, and then compared his alphabet with that of Monotype Bembo, and to my eye it's entirely too close to that Bembo. My heterodox opinion is that Carter could have gone much further. (And where are the bold and bold italic? Only a "street" version, somewhat but not quite fully bolder, appears on the website.) His differences are fascinating, of course--slight overall condensing, adjusted x-height, and above all, a smoothing away of many of the most charming kinks--e.g., on the capital K--instead of adding *more* kinks as, say, Dupré might have done with the same assignment. But these differences don't add up to anything fresh, transcending the source material, as Galliard did. Yale is certainly entitled to their own more "formal" Bembo, but if it went on the market, I would see no point to getting it. I speak as a type consumer, not a type designer.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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> Carter could have gone much further.

I agree, but not further from Bembo, because that's not the point anyway.

> where are the bold and bold italic?

Somewhere in Yale's budget?

hhp

Chris Lozos's picture
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 - 11:00am
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"Somewhere in Yale’s budget?"

There is the rub :-)

ChrisL

paul d hunt's picture
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Joined: 5 May 2005 - 8:44pm
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where are the bold and bold italic

i thought these were for people in advertising... >^P

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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mondoB, good to see that you've edited the offending post. Typophile's edit functionality has saved my skin a few times too. :-)

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Good catch, Simon.
mondoB: please no sleights of hand, OK?

hhp

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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The edit functionality is indeed 'a whole other Oprah' - I suppose it's good form to mark an edited post (edit) or such (maybe this should happen automatically) - but the feature is there, and when I've said something really stupid I've used it (usually within a few minutes of posting the stupid comment). Perhaps the feature should expire within a set time after posting?

Chris Lozos's picture
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 - 11:00am
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I use it to correct my horrid typing/spelling or ommisions of letters in hopes that whatever I first typed might be almost inteligable :-)

ChrisL

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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I suppose you could always try posting when sober? ;-)

Chris Lozos's picture
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 - 11:00am
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I wish it were so simple Si. I just suck at typing.

ChrisL

Jonathan Selig's picture
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006 - 8:57am
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I second Chris, I use edit to fix words that Safari sees as words but aren't the word I wanted it to be.

(for instance I just wrote 'he' instead of 'be' at the end.)

John S's picture
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Joined: 8 Sep 2006 - 3:12am
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> Carter could have gone much further.
from hrant: I agree, but not further from Bembo, because that’s not the point anyway.

But that's exactly the point. The first poster asked whether Carter's Yale fonts were available to the public, which implies a second question: if they were, would they be worth acquiring? My answer to both is no. The prospect of Carter taking a fresh look at Bembo is profoundly exciting, especially since Morison's 1929 is the only version extant. We don't know what his client specified, but the Yale tweaking is deeply disappointing relative to the type market, and I hope Carter could still revisit Bembo with more creative effect. There is a market demand to revive older pre-Morison Bembos, delving deeper into the Renaissance source material for a funkier, more charming result, more like a Dupré face.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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> if they were, would they be worth acquiring?

It would depend on the pricing. But nominally, of course they would be worth acquiring. Look at all the fonts selling out there.

hhp

Kai Bernau's picture
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006 - 5:15am
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> if they were, would they be worth acquiring?

I, for one, would welcome a more useable version of Bembo. "Something went wrong" in the transfer to digital (or maybe even in the transfer to phototype? I'm too young to tell) of the standard MT Bembo and its offsprings.

<rant>
Hell, Tufte even had his own Bembo made because the commercially available ones are mostly crummy.

As for a bold, or even a --shudder-- bold italic: What are you thinking? Did Manuce have a bold italic? Does anyone need bold italics? We would live in a much better world if it weren't for bold italics!
</(h)rant>

Carl Crossgrove's picture
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Joined: 8 Sep 2003 - 2:07pm
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Tufte had a digital Bembo made for his later offset work, probably because he was accustomed to having books set in Monotype metal Bembo by Michael and Winnie Bixler (for offset repro, no less). He has the same prejudice we all have: "Metal Bembo is so great, why is the digital so weak?" and he knew metal Bembo.

One partial answer to that complaint is the new, OpenType Bembo Book, which Robin Nicholas based on a different size master than the earlier digital version. It's stronger.