Waters Titling seeks complementary sans...

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Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
Waters Titling seeks complementary sans...
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For elegant book cover. Anyone with some ideas. I only have access to the Adobe Type Library, so if you have suggestions within those constraints, it will be helpful. Thx

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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Penumbra

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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What is the scale difference? Will Waters Titling being quite a lot larger? Which weight are you using? Perhaps Avenir? (If it is small.) Or perhaps Cronos? I really wish Penumbra had a lowercase because I'd suggest that as well. I'd imagine what ever you are doing, since you used the world "elegant," it needs to be fairly thin as to at least match closely the thinnest part of the weight of Waters that you are using. I'd enjoy seeing what it is you are doing.

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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Thanks Stephen and Tiff. I'll post something tonight. Maybe get some design advice too. I'd love to have you look at it. Well, I hope it's elegant anyway.

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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Here are 2 versions. First is the last one marketing and sales saw. They like it, except the fact that 'famous' is the most visible on the title. Unfortunately I came on after the title design meeting. I was told that the title and the subtitle should be nearly the same in importance. This is tricky because the title doesn't tell you what the book is about, thus the sub needs to be more visible. This is like the 12th version of this. AND my immediate boss just told me that the one on the right (which I like only a little less than the one on the left,) is too extreme of a switch.

The image is cropped photo of a spotlight on curtains, playing on the 'stage-left' aspect of not being famous, similar as to showing a red carpet with no one on it.

also: they won't let me use any kind of cliché writing instruments. Pencils, pens, typewriters &c.

Then there is this...
http://static.flickr.com/122/303283067_469933c73c_o.png
Out of frustration.

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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wow. slightly confusing. so the title is "You Don't Have To Be Famous"? AND the title has to hold equal weight with the sub-title?

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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I'd say the sub has to hold 'almost' equal weight. On the one on the right, I was trying use size and color to juggle the heirarchy. Eh. Kind of works, kind of doesnt work.

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Well, what if you just used the same point-size and weight as the white title, but set it in red? Stacked them as one paragraph instead of space in between?

Carl Crossgrove's picture
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Joined: 8 Sep 2003 - 2:07pm
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What's with the connecting T's that don't connect to anything?

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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Ok, just got back home…Not final. 2 more variatons. Cronos is proving interesting

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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I still think the point size should stay constant. I also think the line-spacing is a tad tight. Couldn't the author's name be in the bottom third in white? (Just another thought.)

Randy Jones's picture
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005 - 8:54am
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Not liking the Waters -- unbelievable font though. The tight, stacked caps give me spiritual conotations (alt E adds to it).

Also, waters titling makes me feel like I do have to be famous since it's so expressive. Isn't the point that even anonymous people have a story to tell? Maybe you could hint at this with the type. A nameless, faceless, condensed, grotesque to which you add unexpected flair perhaps? (sounds like I got that from the Typophile Small Chat Generator :-)

I'm wondering if the text setting can also reflect your stage left concept. Maybe it is coming out of the shadows. Or maybe it is left justified and wraps around the spine (off page left).

To sum it up either:
Fancy type hidden in the shadows
or
Plain type in the spotlight with unexpected flair.
or
Famous in the spotlight and the rest in shadow (would need to get away from stage left concept.

Obviously 6 ideas on one cover will not work ;-)
I could be thinking too hard.
R

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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Well, thanks for everyones input. I'll have to try the other sugestions in my free time, we just finalized the design today from a modification of the first one on the left I posted. I'm not thrilled with it, but glad to get it out of the way. the other covers i have assigned to me I already have tons of ideas layed out for . This one was just (banging head on wall). Been there?

I might post it later, tomorrow. It's Gill Caps and Waters Titling. Like I said. Not the greatest.

Randy Jones's picture
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Joined: 10 Jun 2005 - 8:54am
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Best of the group IMO.
Free time???

:-)

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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Yah, free time. Still not used to not having that :)
p.s.- The fake small caps were forced upon me at gunpoint.

Here's the final w/spine.

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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p.s.s.- the kerning IS NOT final!

Linda Cunningham's picture
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 - 3:55pm
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Apart from a lack of space, is there any particular reason the title on the spine doesn't match what's on the cover? (Sorry, but stuff like that always catches my eye.)

I quite like the left-hand spine you posted last Friday....

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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Part 1 of your question: it's what sales/marketing wanted. Believe you me, I had nicer options. You mean the type itself or the truncated sub?
They told me to truncate it so it would all fit larger.

The spine from last friday was before I knew what the thickness of the book was going to be. It went from an inch to approximately 5/8'ths of an inch. so, almost 50% reduction in width.

Linda Cunningham's picture
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 - 3:55pm
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The truncated sub. Made my teeth grind uncontrollably. If I saw this on a bookstore shelf, pulled it off and noticed the discrepancy, I'd probably put it back, shaking my head. Probably not what the sales/marketing types want to hear from a potential customer.

Yeah, it's tough with narrow spines -- I'd probably just go with the sub, actually, since it communicates more about the subject of the book.

(That being said, what about switching them around to make it "How to Write Your Life Story: You Don't Have to be Famous" ;-) )

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 26 Aug 2003 - 4:14pm
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I don't think the font is a problem as much as the lack of a compelling graphic. Could you use a graphic like Alfred E. Newman or equal then the lack of a compelling title would be lessened. Its a boring subject

David's picture
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004 - 1:46pm
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I agree with Dan about the graphic being the problem vs. the type. I think a better concept needs to be nailed down, then that will help determine what typeface to be used.

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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I disagree. I enjoy the subtlety of the stage curtains.

David's picture
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Joined: 17 Dec 2004 - 1:46pm
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I'm all for subtlety, but I think the cover is stradling the line between intriguing and boring.

Of course, if sales and marketing had its way, it would probably be as subtle as Eric's "Nuclear Holocaust Kitty" avatar. That is one angry cat!

Eric West's picture
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005 - 8:43pm
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Not that it matters now, but I'd be curious as to other concepts someone could come up with based on the title and a brief summation of the book as being "...for people (mostly baby boomers) who would like to make a record of their life, written in a profession manner, without the intent of being published.

I already went the photoalbum/scrapbook route, that got nixed based on the fact that they just discontinued their geneology line, and it look too much like it.

P.S.- the image still needs to be replace w/high res. I blew a 1x2 inch square thumbnail up for that. Image quality would help I think, I'll post that when it's placed.

Linda Cunningham's picture
Joined: 26 Jul 2006 - 3:55pm
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I'm not sure that if I saw a book proposal with those words that I'd accept it: smacks of being more than slightly self-referential....

Tim Daly's picture
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Joined: 11 Sep 2003 - 9:04am
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To me, the title and subtitle need to be separate, tying them together makes it read badly, if the title was You don’t have to be famous to write your life story it would work better, given that the title is set though, I would treat the elements as distanced from each other. For the faux small caps it really wouldn't affect the size much if the spine was all caps.
Tim