Windows Vista

miles's picture

Has anyone here moved to Vista yet?

I'm very interested to hear what type users are experiencing with it, and the new fonts.

James Scriven's picture

I'm Mac and wont use windows, but I'd like to try their fonts. There's also some interesting new desing programs on the Windows website. . . not sure of the link. I'll try to find it.

----------------------------

Brad Hamilton: Why don't you get a job Spicoli?
Jeff Spicoli: What for?
Brad Hamilton: You need money.
Jeff Spicoli: All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.

aluminum's picture

The new 'design' apps are the Expression products. They look promising. At least there's someone left to compete against Adobe...even if it is Microsoft. ;o)

dberlow's picture

I'm very happy with the new CT rendering. It is light and can be exquisitely crisp compared to the ad hoc-only and heavy rendering of Quartz or the "let us beat the type nearly to death with greys" of CoolType. We now have a full spectrum of digital ink; Cooltype colors pixels that are 100% outside of the glyph outline on one end, and you need to try real hard to make sure there are no drop out pixels in CT on the other. :)

"and the new fonts."
I have not had time to put them through a total pacing from 11 to 72, but this weekend, I'll have a full report. ;)

Si_Daniels's picture

>I’m very interested to hear what type users are experiencing with it, and the new fonts.

Vista Fonts: 290+MB, 712,000+ total glyphs, 68 new fonts, 191 fonts installed by default.

Si_Daniels's picture

>I’m Mac and wont use windows, but I’d like to try their fonts.

So, out of interest, how much would you be willing to pay for them? Assume a standard five cpu license. Feel free to wait for David's review before posting your price. ;-)

Miss Tiffany's picture

Would $300 be an insult?

blank's picture

Would I be violating a EULA if I just bought Vista to rip the fonts off the disc and load them on my Mac?

Miss Tiffany's picture

Something tells me that you would be ... I'd guess they have something in the EULA about fonts only running on the same machine as the Vista Software.

mjpatrick's picture

What if you had Virtual PC installed on the Mac with a Vista OS installed? Although I'm not sure if they are allowing that... scratch that thought.

I'm also wondering how many of Vista's fonts might come installed with the next version of MS Office for OS X... that is, if they plan on continuing support for it.

James Scriven's picture

I'm not sure about all of their new fonts, I have just been bbuilding interest in their clear type "everything begins with the letter C" collection. It's been pretty hard to find any valuable specimens and I have not tooled around with Vista at my office. . . so hard for me to conclude.

Top of my head, I agree with Tiff, somwhere in that range.

Here is the link for the expressions design programs. . .

http://www.microsoft.com/design/work/Detail.aspx?key=expression
------------
Brad Hamilton: Why don't you get a job Spicoli?
Jeff Spicoli: What for?
Brad Hamilton: You need money.
Jeff Spicoli: All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.

Si_Daniels's picture

Thanks. Still no 'official' word from Mac Office. My personal opinion is that there should be some easy and legal way for non Windows/Office users to get access to the C* fonts if they really want to/need to.

James Scriven's picture

I concur

---------

Brad Hamilton: Why don't you get a job Spicoli?
Jeff Spicoli: What for?
Brad Hamilton: You need money.
Jeff Spicoli: All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.

aluminum's picture

"Would I be violating a EULA if I just bought Vista to rip the fonts off the disc and load them on my Mac?"

Depends on who you ask.

But, I kind of doubt it would make a difference. I assume the EULA is box-centric rather than OS centric. Your 'mac' would 'own' the license, so it'd be fine for the fonts to be used on there.

"ersion of MS Office for OS X… that is, if they plan on continuing support for it."

Considering it's the biggest selling software product for Macs, I assume MS would have no problems continuing to sell it to us. ;o)

Spire's picture

Legal issues aside, due to the nature of the new installer used by Windows Vista, ripping the fonts off the distribution disc would be... difficult.

mike_duggan's picture

>It’s been pretty hard to find any valuable specimens

you can find some specimens of the fonts at this link

http://www.microsoft.com/typography/links/news.aspx?NID=5759

cheers
mike

blank's picture

Legal issues aside, due to the nature of the new installer used by Windows Vista, ripping the fonts off the distribution disc would be… difficult.

Some nerd will write a *nix program that mounts the image as a readable file system and post it to Sourceforge. It's inevitable.

Spire's picture

Some nerd...

Geek. The word is geek.

crossgrove's picture

"you can find some specimens of the fonts at this link"

If you're running Vista.

Si_Daniels's picture

>If you’re running Vista.

There are viewers for Windows XP ;-) follow the link.

ALECEAST's picture

No need for all that messing about - On the Intel Macs you have the option of running bootcamp or Parallels so you should be able to install Vista and copy the fonts. Don't ask me if that's legal though cos I don't know.

But I would imagine Vista fonts will become available for the Mac sooner or later. If you consider how many agencies recommended Verdana as a corporate font when creating identities, then it will only be a matter of time before those same agencies realise there's a new bunch of system fonts they can use to "differentiate thier client's communications".

Al

elliot100's picture

Ascender Corporation licence Microsoft fonts, but pricing isn't public (although I've read it's $20-$30 per font) and I don't think they list all the Vista fonts yet:

http://www.ascendercorp.com/msfonts/msfonts_productlist.html#Vista

NB the Web Core Fonts package (Arial, Georgia, TNR, Trebuchet, Verdana et al) is still available for free legal download.

vinceconnare's picture

I just got an upgrade today and even though sick I tried and finally succeeded to have it install the upgrade but I should have just nuked the drive. I'll have to reinstall everything including the wireless card.

I'm scared very scared. It's also a bit too 'fluffy bunnies'

time to get a new laptop anyway, but I'm also scared of putting on a Mac Book Pro.

Zune is a good photo viewer and video viewer with a big screen and nice disk management. But I'm going to have to reinstal that too.

Bad news is Zune is Windows only (unless I guess if you have it installed on the intelMac.)

i'm scared

typequake's picture

Many experts believe switching to a new Windows version before the first Service Pack is released is risky.

Spire's picture

I'm a software developer, and I've been using Windows Vista on my primary machine for the better part of a year now. I don't recommend upgrading to it unless it's part of a new system.

Si_Daniels's picture

>I’m scared very scared. It’s also a bit too ‘fluffy bunnies’

A reference to ClearType being on by default? You could always switch to, Mac OS... 9 ;-)

>time to get a new laptop anyway, but I’m also scared of putting on a Mac Book Pro.

What scares you? It's installed on a separate partition under bootcamp, how can that affect the OSX Partition?

>Zune is a good photo viewer and video viewer with a big screen and nice disk management. But I’m going to have to reinstal that too.

...but uses an unhinted UI font displayed using regular antialaising. Does the fluff not bother you there?

>for the better part of a year now.

It was only completed in october. I'd suggest replacing any pre-release verison with the shipping version.

>I don’t recommend upgrading to it unless it’s part of a new system.
>Many experts believe switching to a new Windows version before the first Service Pack is released is risky.

Been running the RTM version on a crappy Toshiba laptop for the past few months, and haven't had any issues or needed any new drivers.

Spire's picture

It was only completed in october. I’d suggest replacing any pre-release verison with the shipping version.

I thought it would be obvious that prior to the RTM version, I was using beta builds.

vinceconnare's picture

well two days into it I'm finally at least connected to the internet. my Netgear WG511v1 is only a few years old but unsupported and doesn't work so I had to buy a new wireless card. So it's painful to upgrade. Also laptops, be careful not to lose your drivers or your touch pad is buggered.

It's going to take a good week to get it back to normal, but the OS is a bit how's your father.

Miss Tiffany's picture

Vince, can we get a cockney translation on that last bit? I've seen you use that before.

vinceconnare's picture

it's not cockney it's and old saying, but in Manchester it means someting like weird.

vinceconnare's picture

it's not cockney it's and old saying, but in Manchester it means someting like weird.

Si_Daniels's picture

I've been gone ten years but my recollection was that a "a bit how’s your father" was a reference to sex - how this relates to Vista depends on the Web sites Vinnie frequents.

vinceconnare's picture

Yes the original expression is from the Victorians, referring to a man asking a woman if her father put on a chastity belt, as in 'how's your father' and she'd say 'he's very well thank you' I guess meaning she's up for a fiddle,

but in Manchester it now means something that's a bit dodgy. 'My Ruby was a bit how's your father'.

vinceconnare's picture

Back to Vista,

I don't mind the OS... it's a bit refreshing. BUT I wouldn't add it to an old system (even my Alienware which was top of the line 2yr 6m ago)

It's a bit like the System 7 roll out.

the Widgets are a good idea, oh that's Gadgets. But really this concept goes a long way back since in 1993 I remember several Microsoft employees who had a stock ticker that was floating in the corner of their Window 3.1 window.

Ironically Apple got rid of their trash can so how come MS has one by default?

my new favourite fidgets!!

But 'alert level' according to who??

Marbux's picture

"Many experts believe switching to a new Windows version before the first Service Pack is released is risky."

Many experts believe running Windows at all is risky. :-)

Grot Esqué's picture

But Vince, who writes comic book lettering on post-its? :^) Still, I feel sorry for you. What’s the middle widget in the second image supposed to tell? Time?

Spire's picture

Prayer times for Muslims.

dberlow's picture

> Has anyone here moved to Vista yet?
I have upgraded and it's worth it. The system fonts, the default browser fonts, and reader fonts all look the same or better with Vista's CT. Since all I do on windows though is look at fonts, and use them, it's easy to do the upgrade. ;)

> I’m very interested to hear what type users are experiencing with it, and the
> new fonts.
I'm pleased l that the browser (IE.X?) still lets the user have control of the font calls, (via "fonts" "Accessibility" in the "internet options"). So, if you set the browser font to a C-font, and "don't let web pages spec fonts" all of them look about as good as each other, but much better than the defaults set by most html or browser settings.

>I’m Mac and wont use windows, but I’d like to try their fonts.
Aside from the legal issues, you'll find that they are less Mac-adapted in their current form than Georgia or Verdana were, so, set Quartz to 6 for best results. The optimum size, though I only checked one, is likely to be "13" on the Mac. Otherwise, (i.e. Scaling up), they behave like any other unhinted TT in Quartz.

vinceconnare's picture

Vista messed up my Alienware, but I think it's more the hardware since the Alienware was fanstastic/crap, both many issues but lots of power and resolution.

I've upgraded to a MacBook Pro. Installed Bootcamp>Win XP sr2 full>Mac hardware support drivers>Vista Ultimate upgrade.....

http://vinceconnare.wordpress.com

and it's WOW

vinceconnare's picture

XP works fine on bootcamp/MacBook Pro. But...

Vista is not backwards compatible and probably won't work on anything but new. (very Apple System 7 like)

- Apple's Sigma Tel audio drivers don't work in Vista (Sigma Tel doesn't support drivers or consumers)
- Apple's Bluetooth drivers don't work in Vista
- Apple's Startup disk in Control Panel doesn't work in Vista (you use the alt key on restart to select boot device).
- Netgear's WG511v1.1 wireless network card don't work in Vista
- Microsoft's Visual Studio .net 2003 doesn't install on Vista and isn't supported.
- the SSH Client 3.2.9 non-commercial from http://www.ssh.com/ doesn't work
- Ipswich WS_FTP you need the commercial version with SSH support and the Vista upgrade for it to work.
- FontLab 4.6 may not install on Vista (I couldn't get it to install but 5.0.2 is fine)
- MS Font Validator works fine as long as you have .net 1.1 framework installed.

that's the list so far....

Spire's picture

- the SSH Client 3.2.9 non-commercial from http://www.ssh.com/ doesn’t work

If you need an SSH client for Windows (including Windows Vista), PuTTY is good -- and free.

vinceconnare's picture

yes I know but I prefer Ipswich WS_FTP Pro which also has SSH support and another Vista upgrade. So I'm using that.

paul d hunt's picture

i guess this is the right thread... i just got my upgrade disk, but after hearing some horror stories, i don't think i want to upgrade my OS, but i DO want to be able to get the fonts, particularly the new Times New Roman which has been improved upon. Is it possible to find the font on the disk without installing the whole beast? Probably not, but just thought i'd ask...

metalfoot's picture

FileZilla also has SSH support... it's free. And apparently some of the new Vista fonts are available simply by updating your PowerPointViewer module to PPV 2007. I just did, and got the new fonts!

Si_Daniels's picture

Paul, the Vista EULA limits the use of the Vista fonts to when Vista is running (exceptions for embedding and printer downloading) - however if you really want the latest TNR (version 5.0) then Monotype or Ascender should be able to license it to you.

vinceconnare's picture

I've fixed all my Vista related issues when running on an Alienware Area-51M 766.

I had to upgrade Ipswich WS_FTP to Pro but that was good since it supports SSH.

Main problem was the Nvidia driver, the upgrade needed an updated .ini file that tells the installer that the driver supports my video card.

http://vinceconnare.wordpress.com/

once I fixed the video driver it was fine. The only thing I find now is Haupaugge's WinTV (which is a bit rubbish) doesn't work with the new Media Centre, WinTV boots on start-up and locks it from being used in Media Centre. But that's not a big deal.

It depends on what you want to do. I would think only in some very specific cases will you have issues with Vista.

I like using MS Visual Studio 2003 for a lot things like webpages and some Python but 2003 isn't supported so I do my work on XP.

The other is I wanted to use a MacBook Pro as my main PC and Vista is too weird on that so WinXP works fine and that is what I had to put on that. But this is also not a normal requirement.

vinceconnare's picture

Wow I tried Parallel.. and tried to use my WinXP but the mouse died... So I wiped out the Bootcamp partition and started over with Parallel. Used Custom because first time the auto install only gives you 512mb RAM and a small amount of maximum disk space. You can set up 1.5gig of RAM and 50gig of disk space.

Vista works and the drivers work. You might need to install them manually within Parallel.

It's pretty good so far since you can flip to and from the Mac OS, it's better than the old VirtualPC of the 90s.

The only noticable thing missing is Aero, the new 3D modelling, so there are no see through windows. The Fridgettes work so you can have your prayer clock handy.

oops iSight camera isn't supported apparently oh well.

lherrou's picture

If you download the free MS PowerPoint Viewer, you'll get the Vista fonts installed on your system...
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=048DC840-14E1-4...

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