Azoumbie

Marc C's picture

Hi,

What do you thingk off my work ?

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Marc C's picture

Forgot to tell, I want to work on some letter

Uppercase

W, G, M

Lowercase

a, m, w, y

satya's picture

post a pdf file of the face so that one can have a closer look at the glyphs?

Marc C's picture

Hi,

I'd really love to hear what ever people think about it.

Marc C's picture

Hi Marc,

My name is Henrico...

I really loved you're work, continued like this !

Enrico...

Marc C's picture

Hi Enrico,

Thank's for the respond !

I was beginning to think about the fact then people here dont care about new member.

Marc

Marc C's picture

Hey Henrico !

Do you think I should work on my a,w,m, y ?

Marc C's picture

Hey Marc this is Henrico,

Definitively you should work on those letters

ebensorkin's picture

Marc, who do you se using this typeface? What is it for? It's a nice experiment but it needs to be pushed further to be useful I think. But to do that you need to know where you want to go & why.

Marc C's picture

Hi Eben,

Thanks for your respond, I was becoming desperate.

Ok first, I do not have the pretention to call my self a typograph, I'am only a beginner.

The way I see this font use, is for Title of underground event or logo.

Here a logo I do for one of my custumer whit my fonts, as you can see the tree last letter are inverse

I think people here dont like the font, but its ok when you ask somethink like that you have to accept it

satya's picture

Hey Marc.

Its really a nice font. Very graphic,
But yeah, you must have to work on few of the characters.

Looking forward to see this a complete face.

satya.

Reed Reibstein's picture

I like the direction you're going, but I question your decision to make the bottom of the uppercase letters slant up while the lowercase bottoms are nearly horizontal. It makes the capitals far too different from the lowercase, in my opinion. I'd choose one or the other to use for both uppercase and lowercase (I'd go with horizontal bottoms myself).

It's looking good, but it needs some polishing. After a quick look, the M seems overly wide and lopsided, the meeting point of the center and bottom stroke of the W leaves a dark spot there that unbalances the letter, the top of the b's bowl should be more angled to match the other lowercase letters, the bottom of the j is too wide, the top part of the s makes too dark an area (you need more white space there), and the y and z are tilting too much to the right. There are other issues too, most to do with consistency between letters and the amount of white space you use. A common suggestion is to flip the letters horizontally so that they form a mirror image. After doing that, you can more easily evaluate any weight or other problems with the letterforms. Even with these problems, it's looking good. Keep going.

ill sans's picture

Definitely a great start!
It's got this kind of B-movie sci-fi feel to it that I really like.

Marc C's picture

HI Satya,
when you said my typeface is very graphic, I know all my friend told me that even whit some graphic designe.

auricfuzz,
Thanks for your critique, and I agree whit you. I did not tell more because I'am really tired today and I have a cold and when I'am tired I have a lot of problem whit my english !

ChrisL, I know since the beginning I look like a very tired guy ;) -LOL-

ill sans,
Thanks

Have a good night for all of you

brampitoyo's picture

I think you could even extend the 'reverse-angle glyphs' to a whole alternate set of alphabet. It shouldn't be very hard to do, but you'll still have to fine-tune them to achieve the optimum optical balance.

Marc C's picture

Hi,

For those who helped me to my typeface I would like to thanks for, because you gave me a second breath.

satya's picture

liked you corrected 'a'. Can we see other modified characters too?

Marc C's picture

What do you think

brampitoyo's picture

Looks much better! I think that you could even infuse some warmth by introducing a curve in your flat bottoms. Think rounded edges, though, not real curvy curves.

Marc C's picture

Hi brampitoyo,

Thanks for responding.

I did understant your text, but didnt or cant imagine what you mean by introducing a curve in the flat bottoms.

Can you show me a example ?

brampitoyo's picture

Yes.

This is my bastardized Illustrator approximation of your type--and I'm not sure of what your design intent was--but the b, in my opinion, should look something like this.

Marc C's picture

Thanks,

I will try it and show you after

blank's picture

I agree with Bram; this is a great start on a new display face, now you should make the little calligraphic tweaks that turn it into a refined face that you can start selling.

Marc C's picture

Hi Bram and everybody,

I really needs your comments, I really dont know what to think

ill sans's picture

The new b, definitely!

brampitoyo's picture

Love the 'inked' effect on the joint and the subtle serif on the bottom crotch!

You might want to smooth out the lower right part of the bowl, though—can't see it too clearly from here if you have smoothed it out or not—so there's no abrupt angle in your strokes.

Marc C's picture

HI brampt,

At the right corner of the letter there's a smoot curve, but maybe not a enought. I will look at it.

Looks better now ?

brampitoyo's picture

Love it,

One very important question, though: how calligraphic do you originally want to go in drawing this face?

The reason for this is that the b still feels stiff around some corner (now that I looked at the bigger version of the drawing—but this is purely according to my taste. Nonetheless, the touches that you're going to put in will depend on how much 'hand stroke' look are you trying to achieve. You know, because you may want the face to feel stiff on this side and not so much on that side, and so on.

Thanks.

Marc C's picture

Hi Bramp,

First I had to ask Kristina to translate what you told me before because I wasnt able to understant all what you're saying (thanks Kristina).

As for my typeface, I've come from a long way, because when I began to draw this typeface I didnt know nothing about typographie (1 years and a half ago).

When I decided to began that typeface, I gave me tree line guid (or rules)

1 - This have to be a title typeface, (That's why we couldent see the smoot curve when the letter is small)

2 -I want a typeface whit a lot of character (Thats why the b or other letter feel stiff)

3 - I want this typeface had a touch of feminity (Thats why I put a subtle serif), but I am not sure I had accomplish very well this rules 3. But in a other hand, if you make a parallel whit gal (sorry girls) whit a lot of character, what are you going to see first, is feminity or is Character ? For my self I know I am going to see first the character of the woman.

Ho My god, I'am really far !!!!

As for the typeface, I will give a biggest curve like I show you at the right corner. I hope I wasnt to bad to understant.

Stay in touch B and thanks

brampitoyo's picture

Marc,

First of all, sorry for giving you a really hard time ;-)

For number 1 and 2, I think you're close to your objective here. Next up is finishing the rest of your alphabets/glyphs so that they match with your redesigned b and then optically align them. I hope we can talk then, yes?

As for number 3, I'm sorry, but I really couldn't understand what were you trying to convey. I know that you tried to draw a parallel between feminity and character, and that you wanted to emphasize the latter rather than the former (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that); but the figure of speech confused me.

This calls for another Kristina's help—this time it's for me. Can you explain this paragraph, please? ;-)

Marc C's picture

Hi Bramp,

One of my friend (he's perfectly bilingual) told me that my rule 3 is unreadable, even if in french he as problem to understant.

About the rule 3, I want to have a small touch of feminity.

Bramp that's going to be a pleasure to get in touch whit you ! I ve done about 7 letters whit the correction but some letters let's confuse me, next week-end I am going to show you and ask you about some tips about my confusing.

BTW my friends told me how tought it is to understand what did I write in english, I am really sorry !!!!! :(

brampitoyo's picture

No problem at all, Marc. I'll be more than happy to look over the stuff with you, so just post some stuff here and we'll work on it.

Cheers.

ebensorkin's picture

Congradulations on the improvements. Keep on going.

I want to made a suggestion as well. Why not made one set of letters that slant left let & one that slants right. You could make it as two fonts or use the upper case & the lower case in one font. Then you could create a xyxyxy look or a xxxxx look or a yyyyyy look.

Cheers!

Marc C's picture

Hi Eben,

Thanks for the compliments I really appreciate it !

As for your idea, that's a really good idea.

M

brampitoyo's picture

LOL, I was saying the same thing way back in this thread :) I guess I have to learn to write more lucidly.

How is the font progress, Marc?

Marc C's picture

HI Bramp,

No you dont have to write more lucidly, I haved to learn to read english -LOL-

About my typeface, in going well I was confuse whit some glyph but is ok now, only stuck whit my s :(

I can't work on it on the week, I am to tired I just work on it on the week-end.

I will try to send something this week-end.

Thanks to be in touch !

brampitoyo's picture

Ah, yes, the s.

Well, in any case, please don't feel obligated to send the work (or work at all, for that matter) on Azoumbie until you feel like it. Take you time. It's your typeface, and if you're going to successfully finish it, you have to love every part of it.

Marc C's picture

Hi Bram,

Take a look and tell me the glyph you dont like

brampitoyo's picture

Hey Marc,

Right off the bat, there's something peculiar about the upper left part of the f. The stroke doesn't start naturally. In my opinion, you can't simply use the stem of an l and the arm of an r to make an instant f ;-)

The d and q also look like mirrored b and p to my eye (you might have designed them differently; and if so, I apologize). As far as I know, this is not an uncommon practice in display faces (Alternate Gothic no. 2, for instance, use mirorred b, d, p, and q). But personally, I design every alphabet a little bit differently to not only account for its relative visual weight (this you must do) but also to impart subtle design touches to each one.

Also, some of the strokes that you draw doesn't end naturally. For instance, the end stroke of i, h, k and u are missing the right part of the serif. See below for the "right stroke" example (this is taken from the typeface Costa). Your situation is different, but I hope you can grasp the general principle of stroke ending by seeing it in action. I understand your intention of making this face a semi-serif; so, In this case, if you do add the right serif to the stroke, the left one can be erased and you'll still have a semi.

Just shout if you have any question. Best of luck!

Marc C's picture

Hey Bram,

About your commantary let me tell you that you hurt the target well, because I really live a big duality about my semi serif left and right position. When I maded my u my first reflex was to put the semi at the right but changed my idea because my rule in my head was in priotity to put a left semi, but since the beginning I dont felt good about it. I am going to try whit first rule semi right. (**** I hope you understand my writting!!!!!!)

About my mirrored b d p q, I dont haved any problem whit my b d mirored but the p q I didnt liked it. Maybe I will try to gave each a different identity (b d p q). I didnt like my g

Thanks for your comments, I really appreciated !!!!

BTW, at the end of the day I will edit the post (the one whit the glyph) and put a new image of my glyph, I chanded the v and the w is done (the w was really thought !!!!).

brampitoyo's picture

Speaking about duality, inherent in Azoumbie's design I see a struggle between the extent to where you should keep the serif consistent (ie. all-right or all-left)), and where you should make it more natural (hand-stroke like). So I suggest you experiment with adding/cutting the serifs until you find a combination that's not only unique to each alphabet, but also work together with each other.

Thanks for bearing with my often harsh critique ;-)

Marc C's picture

Hey Bram,

Sorry for last sunday, I was suppose to show you my typeface but I wansnt ready.

brampitoyo's picture

Marc,

First of all, sorry about the long overdue reply.

But wow, this typeface is really shaping up to be quite nice! Some quick remarks before I head to bed:

    Love the new serif that you have at the end of d. Small, subtle touches like this is what's going to make your typeface unique, especially when printed large.

    However, my eyes kept on wanting to see a normal arm on the f. I think the current slanted serif design is unique, but for some reason, it doesn't look like a normal f to my eye (which could be good or bad). You know, kind of what Eric Gill said about "what makes an a an a?" But this point is totally subjective to me, and you should get other designers to view the letter and see what they think.

    Love the new i and its new dot

    Speaking about the dot, it needs to be moved closer to i and j.

    Also love the new k, very nice touch there.

    You might want to eliminate the bottom-left serifs of l and t and replace it with right serifs. Right now they looks a little bit unbalanced, I think.

    There's also a balance issue on m, where the second and third downward strokes appear too thin, when compared to the first stroke (that you purposely made thick as a tool to achieve consistency). You might want to thicken the second downward stroke, so that the alphabet's progression goes more smoothly from thick (left) to thin (right).

    w looks unbalanced, not only angle-wise but also visually. For instance, the second 'v' appeared to be on a slightly different angle when compared to the first 'v' shape, the crotch that's inbetween the two v's should be wider, and the two counterspace should be more optically equal.

    Designing x, like designing s, takes a lot of practice and patience to get them to appear 'right'. Is there any explanation behind the uneven angles on the x? If you want to make them uneven (which could be to a good or bad effect), you better connect them optically (ie. the strokes should look like they're connected, although, in vector, they really are a little bit off from each other).

    The y's crotch seem too small. I understand that you want to keep all the left stroke thick, but maybe you can make y's second stroke a little bit thinner to open up the counterspace.

    Love the fi, but I'm wondering if you could even take the ligature concept further (since this is meant to be a display face) and design it slightly differently, rather than jst connecting the letter f and i together.

I'm really sorry if my critique is harsh. I hope it can help your typeface for the better. I also hope that you got a buddy that can help you understand all the English. At times like these I wish I knew the French language more :)

Thanks much, Marc!

Marc C's picture

HI Bram,

For tell the truth, you really impress me ! You saw all the subtle touch I’ve done, congratulation !!!!

About the F, when you said the ARM do you mean the arm in the midle or the f or the parts where’s the capsline is ? Yes I know what you talking about « what makes an a an a »

About the dots on the i and the j, I was thinking the dot was suppose to be at the height of the capsline ! ?

About the w Your right. Can I have a w a little bit more wider than my m ?

Today I’am going to make the fine tuning. I probably change my g, because I really dont like it. Befored I maded my s I will make a small line of text to see what its done.

I have a question for you, I hope you will understand, is there some specific text (to create) to evaluate the typeface in a line ?

Thanks very much Bram !!!!

brampitoyo's picture

Marc,

About the F, I meant the capsline—specifically its stiff left edge—not the arm (sorry about that).

True, the dots on i and j are usually set at caps height; but on a display face, it is common to move them down to achieve balance (especially since you're going to print them large)

I think you can have W wider as well; right now, it does appear slightly thinner than M anyway.

As for the sampling text, I use the one that everyone commonly use, 'Hamburgefonstiv'.

Hope that helps. Thanks a lot!

Marc C's picture

Hi,

Here's what I've done, hope you like the g, it took me all the day !!!!

How do you call (in english) the line below the baseline ?

I will work soon on my s z and again my w

About the hamburgefonstiv, my s it's not there.

What do you think ?

Thanks

brampitoyo's picture

Hey Marc,

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to comment on Azoumbie. Actually, the reason I'm posting here right now is to excuse myself for a hiatus for several months. Lately, the agency has been getting a lot of projects (and meetings have also gone crazier, from several times a week to every day), so I feel that I have to focus on that for the time being.

I'm really sorry that I wouldn't be able to leave a comment for Azoumbie in the next few months, but I do know that this typeface is looking better by the day, so please keep on working on it!

Comments for now:
The g looks good, but it's lacking an angle on its bottom bowl (right now it's just plain square)
v and w looked excellent and more balanced. Love it. You need to do the same thing with y, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Have you tried making the upper serif on l, t and i to face left (like what you did on h)? It would provide more balance to the letter, I think.
Also, the bottom-right serif on n will need to face right, so that the alphabet won't look like it's falling over :)

This typeface is shaping up very nicely, and I'm looking forward to finally be able to see it to completion. Thanks a lot for your patience so far, Marc, and I'll be sure to see you soon!

ill sans's picture

You're making vast improvements on Azoumbie... Keep up the good work!

Marc C's picture

Hi Bram and ill sans,

Bram, there's no problem and thank you very much for the help you gave me, take care of you !

ill sans,

Thank you very much I appreciate.

Just wondering how to interpret the tree dots or suspention, do you mean you really do a good improvement but the typeface is bad or you never been a good typographe ?

Dont be shy to tell, I prefer the thruth even if its thaught.

Have a good day to both or you !!!

ill sans's picture

Well, to be honoust, I'm not really a typographer (everything I "know" about it is what I read in books -and mind you, I'm not much of a reader, I basically just look at the nice pictures ;-) ) & on these threads, but I've developed a great interest in it a few years back & even made a few attempts of making my own typefaces posted here as well.
What I meant by the 3 dots is that you should definitely keep working on typography! Seeing as this is only your first typeface, you're already way ahead of me. So when you're done with Azoumbie, please show us everything else you start with. I can't wait to see more of your work!

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