Book Design Question

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wyndom's picture
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Joined: 14 Jan 2005 - 3:10pm
Book Design Question
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What is the significance of the red line?

David Scott Goen's picture
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 - 11:53am
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It shows where the top left corner of the text is placed.

David Scott Goen's picture
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 - 11:53am
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Oh, and it's also a secondary golden section. The picture was developed by Jan Tschihold when he was trying to find the formula that was used on incunabula.

edward maddison's picture
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Joined: 15 Jun 2006 - 7:38pm
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The diagonal red line where it crosses the diagonal black line indicates the left corner of your type/illustration box, send a horizontal line across and stop at the next diagonal, send a vertical line down until it meets another diagonal etc etc.

Jeff Tupper's picture
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005 - 2:52pm
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It gives the gutter margin. This one looks a bit anemic to me. It might work with a largish book.

edward maddison's picture
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Joined: 15 Jun 2006 - 7:38pm
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or what dsgoen said (i should read before i post)

Jason's picture
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Joined: 13 May 2004 - 1:42pm
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I generally use this model (in green on my avatar, known as the Villard diagram) to draw my text frame, then round out the margins to whole numbers, raise the top margin a bit, lower the bottom margin somewhat, and, finally, shift the frame 1pica towards the outside edge to account for the binding.

Jeff Tupper's picture
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Joined: 12 Jan 2005 - 2:52pm
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I'll take back, or at least qualify, my comments. I actually do like these proportions for reasonably-sized books (larger than mass-market paperback). I think the size of the gif on my screen (the size of a miniature book) was what set me off.

wyndom's picture
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Joined: 14 Jan 2005 - 3:10pm
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thanks

sandro's picture
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Joined: 7 May 2006 - 9:16am
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Golden ratio and Fibonacci numbers are great start for developing grid, type areas and other.

_____________________________________________
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golden ratio of passion. sansogno.coastaldisturbance.com

David Scott Goen's picture
Joined: 29 Jul 2003 - 11:53am
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The red line shows that the golden ratio section also accounts for the left corner. The red lines start at the point defined by the golden ratio. It's just making the relationship clear.

Charles Ellertson's picture
Joined: 3 Nov 2004 - 11:00am
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For those nice, classical gutter margins: Just make sure the book will be Smythe-sewn. If it is perfect-bound or even notch bound, your readers will be digging the text out of the gutter.

wyndom's picture
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Joined: 14 Jan 2005 - 3:10pm
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I was trying to explain it to someone else, and as I was doing so, realized the significance of the red line....thanks again

Andrew Sipe's picture
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005 - 10:44am
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My roommate in college was a huge numbers freak, seriously, he had a man-crush on Fibonacci (and a large poster of him in his room!)

I've always been interested in how the Golden Ratio and Fibonacci's number sequence interacted with elements of design. This is a great example.

Jason, I was wondering what your Avatar was, I could see the Golden Ratio on the left, but hadn't a clue what was represented on the right. Thanks for clearing that up. Is there a link to a larger version somewhere?

William Berkson's picture
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Joined: 26 Feb 2003 - 11:00am
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Charles, how much do you correct--how much added to the gutter--for the different types of bindings?

Jason's picture
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Vincent Grouls's picture
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Joined: 21 Feb 2007 - 12:40pm
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Ow yeah! Now that's cool :-) Had already been scouting the internet to find a magnified version of your avatar; this just made it 1000x easier :-).

While searching though, I found this: The Typesetting Area (PDF, 216KiB), courtesy The Dutch TeX user group website.

Andrew Sipe's picture
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005 - 10:44am
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That's just freakin sweet looking! Thanks

Jason's picture
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Joined: 13 May 2004 - 1:42pm
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My sketch is just a quick combination of diagrams from a few different sources, mainly Tschichold (The Form of the Book) and Bringhurst, but that PDF looks quite good as well.

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Jelmar Geertsma's picture
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006 - 9:53am
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I use that somtimes, but usually I have to increase the inside margins quite a bit.
I guess it works if you use a binding method that allows a book to lie open flat.

Andrew Sipe's picture
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Joined: 25 Apr 2005 - 10:44am
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I think we have a spammer: sunyapeng2006

Every topic he's responded too has been about some World of Warcraft thing.

Jelmar Geertsma's picture
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006 - 9:53am
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Yep, it's copied posts from others, reposted with WoW-crap underneath.