Carol Twombly.. Please help me!

softbluecries1's picture

I have spent the past 3 weeks trying to obtain every piece of information about Carol Twombly for a project in my typography class. I keep seeing things on the web about interviews with her.

If anyone knows where (website) I can find an interview with her it would extremely helpful.

I am also looking for information about her life today. Is she married? any kids? that kind of information. The last thing I found is that she retired from Adobe.

hrant's picture

Bill, thank you for reviving my dormant memories of that Trajan discussion on the TD list. There was more to it than Downer's commendable, if somewhat vigilante-style, research. I remember one of the keys to the somewhat, although not fully, damning conclusion was what Stone had revealed to somebody or other. I also remember that a person who was close to Stone at the time was also relatively open to me (at the time :-) so I asked him at an ATypI conference what the deal was, and he said it was a combination of a cavalier attitude at Adobe and stubborn intransigence on the part of the Catich estate. From the aggregate of what I had learned myself, I agreed. Most of all though, it's notable here that Twombly could only be assigned a very small part of the blame - she was pretty much following orders (although the fact that her bosses were male seems circumstantial).

BTW, something minor I forgot to mention before:
I happen to think Chaparral is a very good design.

hhp

Miss Tiffany's picture

I agree, Hrant. Chapparal is a good design. Perhaps, unless Ms. Twombly were to join us, this discussion should end on that note.

hrant's picture

Perhaps. In any case, I now harbor a fair amount of hope and faith that Heather will somehow manage to get in direct contact with Twombly and deliver a gracious but probing interview.

hhp

ChuckGroth's picture

maybe and maybe not. there have been times i've had the chance to meet leaders in their field, and my questions have even been really meaningful (and sometimes, the responses were even meaningful) and sometimes, unfortunately, i can look back and see my questions were inane and possibly so much as tiresome. we can always hope for the best.

but i can say this has been an interesting forum topic. a little bit of that is the same way we're drawn to the "katie feels trapped! tom has complete control!" headlines when we're buying our brocolli or gin or bread or whatever. but also because bt seems passionate about his assertions, and everyone else seems passionate about their responses. actually, i have always held ct up as one of the few celebrated (especially female) type designers of our time in my class lectures, but i never knew exactly what happened to her since she left adobe (i still don't, exactly). i do hope she's having fun and doing some cool things she's happy with. but then, i also hope my students will give lithos a rest for a while.

SuperUltraFabulous's picture

There are many female graphic designers in the world but... I can only name one female type designer in the world and that's Carol Twombly!

Mikey :-)

billtroop's picture

>Most of all though, it’s notable here that Twombly could only be assigned a very small part of the blame - she was pretty much following orders (although the fact that her bosses were male seems circumstantial).

That is the key motif that runs through Carol's history as a designer.

Now change the word blame to credit. Is the statement still true?

One would wish not. Let's put it this way: it _is_ true, in the view of most of the men she worked with. That view may be sullied. How can we ever know the truth? It was never Carol's way to speak out.

Tiffany, I can promise you faithfully that the very last thing in the world Carol would ever do is (a) either read typophile or (b) contribute any kind of response to it. She's in another world. This is absolutely meaningless to her. I really do know her well enough to say that.

Finally, I would offer the thought that the reason her Caslon is so good is precisely because she is exactly who she is. It is the the particular combination of strength in some areas, weakness in others, that led her to succeed in creating an enduring and much-used typeface where more talented and egostistical brother designers have failed. No true egotist can ever create a truly functional typeface. A successful typeface (by which I mean one which provides the most benefit and pleasure to the most number of readers) is by definition an object for the community and it must in some real sense be of the community and by the community. To go out on a limb here, it is not in the male nature to create an invisible work of art -- and a truly functional typeface _is_ invisible on some important level. It is at least conceivable for an oppressed person (who could be a woman or who could be an oppressed for a hundred other causes) to conceive, happily, an invisible work. There are those, other than Carol, who insist that they are responsible for what is good in the design. I accept that this is true, but I also accept that it is absolutely Carol's design and could not have come about unless she were exactly who she is. A painful birth!

I admire Adobe Caslon more every day. It is one of the very few typefaces that does not annoy me and I am constantly recommending it to people looking for something special. This is cruel but it is true: Carol does not like to annoy; it is entirely in her nature to create a typeface that does not annoy. What the rest of us have so much difficulty in realizing is that this is perhaps the most desirable feature a text typeface can have.

By the way -- in all Carol's letters to me -- it was always Caslon she used! I am sure it is her favourite.

William Berkson's picture

>I can only name one female type designer in the world

Zuzana Licko of Emigre is one prominant woman type designer active today.

>my Mac Directory article

Bill you say in your article that the optical sizes of Adobe make compromises so that their sizes work also at other than the intended sizes. And you say that these compromises make the optical sizes of Adobe inferior to those of Font Bureau and of Sumner Stone.

I am interested: what specifically do you think is wrong with the treatment of the Adobe optical sizes? What adjustments to weights, contrasts, serifs, do you think are less than ideal?

hrant's picture

> it is not in the male nature to create an invisible work of art

This is a very interesting point, but there are a problem and a paradox. The problem is that any face (even a text face) also needs to not be transparent in some ways; and the paradox is that, in some ways besides transparency, the male nature seems more conducive to type design - and this I feel is a big reason why we have such a huge disproportion in gender (although social/conditioning issues are always a huge reason too). The same is true in philosophy (noting that there has been only one notable female philosopher, and quite interestingly she was not heterosexual) and possibly stand-up comedy (where it seems a disproportionate proportion of female performers are not heterosexual).

Hmmm, so maybe the Ideal Type Designer is bisexual! :-)

--

Concerning optical sizing, a separate thread would be smart.

hhp

k.l.'s picture

H.P. -- The same is true in philosophy

Who?

B.T. -- Has she ever had a Max Caflisch-quality critique? Probably not.

In fact, Herr Caflisch reviewed Adobe Caslon in TM 3/1992.

hrant's picture

> Who?

Sappho: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sappho _
In fact the term "lesbian" is derived from the name of her
home island: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbos_Island

hhp

William Berkson's picture

As the wiki article says, Sappho was a lyric poet, not a philosopher, though her poetry was admired by Plato. Even in translation, the greatness of her poetry is evident.

k.l.'s picture

Oh, you go far back in history!

William Berkson's picture

Karsten, what magazine is 'TM'? I'd like to read that review.

hrant's picture

In the world of Ancient Greece poetry and philosophy were closely tied. Terminological pedantry shouldn't prevent us from seeing that what Sappho was doing was thinking about existence, and that's essentially philosophy in the useful sense of the term (as opposed to the over-formalized contempoarary Western sense).

> you go far back in history!

And part of my point is, you have to.

BTW, there was also a Serif Magazine article comparing various Caslons, including I believe Twombly's. Maybe John has the time and kindness to send that along to Heather as well.

hhp

ChuckGroth's picture

i thought there is almost no poetry by sappho that remains - translated or not -- beyond incomplete fragments.

hrant's picture

BTW, something interesting to contemplate here is how "lesbian" possibly became derived from the name of her island. If her work was so ill-preserved, and the references to lesbianism in it so indirect, how could it have prompted the derivation? It's not like she invented it! And for one thing, the Ancient Greeks were much more open to homosexuality than even we are today, so that aspect of her work couldn't have been so extremely in focus. On the other hand, maybe her spoken efforts (a mainstray of Ancient Greek philosophy) were what did it (especially if she travelled a lot), and the paucity of lesbian references in what has survived from her work is just the tip of the iceberg. But I think more probable is that the island of Lesbos had over the centuries or at least decades become a hub of lesbian activity and thought, and Sappho herself was a product of that. She was educated and drawn to compose poetry, so she became the transcriber of sorts. In this scenario, the derivation of "lesbian" would predate (or at least supercede) Sappho.

hhp

William Berkson's picture

>Terminological pedantry

I don't think Sappho would have been thought of as a philosopher in ancient Greece, as lyric poetry it seems was a recognized category, different from philosophy.

>incomplete fragments

There was enough from Sappho that I remember being impressed in my college poetry class. It seems that the complete works were extant for many hundreds of years, until they were ordered to be burned by a series of Popes. [Edit: the wikipedia article linked below says that this story does not have historical foundation.]

I found the one I remember on the internet, as translated by Julia Dubnoff:

Some say an army of horsemen,
some of footsoldiers, some of ships,
is the fairest thing on the black earth,
but I say it is what one loves.

It’s very easy to make this clear
to everyone, for Helen,
by far surpassing mortals in beauty,
left the best of all husbands

and sailed to Troy,
mindful of neither her child
nor her dear parents, but
with one glimpse she was seduced by

Aphrodite. For easily bent...
and nimbly...[missing text]...
has reminded me now
of Anactoria who is not here;

I would much prefer to see the lovely
way she walks and the radiant glance of her face
than the war-chariots of the Lydians or
their footsoldiers in arms.

hrant's picture

This is a philosophical poem.

hhp

James Mosley's picture

>Karsten, what magazine is ‘TM’? I’d like to read that review

Bill, TM is the short title of the Swiss journal Typographische Monatsblätter. In 2003, shortly before he died, Max Caflisch put together many articles from the excellent long series on type history and modern revivals that he had contributed to this journal over many years in a two-volume edition that he designed himself (beautifully), with the title Schriftanalysen: Untersuchungen zur Geschichte typographischer Schriften (St Gallen: Typotron, 2003). They are all in German, but well worth looking out for the illustrations alone. The Adobe Caslon piece is on pages 200–214 of volume 2, and it is followed by one on Carter's Big Caslon.

hrant's picture

> They are all in German

Why, since everything in TM has been trilingual (including English), no?
Maybe he only had the publication rights to his original German writings.

hhp

James Mosley's picture

> everything in TM has been trilingual (including English), no?

In some Swiss books, maybe, but not in the TM I know, so the Caflisch pieces were only in German, but well worth trying. (TM absorbed a French-language trade journal, so some pieces are just in French.)

William Berkson's picture

Thanks, James!

I can manage to read German with the aid of a dictionary. I see that the Library of Congress has the Typographische Monatsblätter, though I'm not sure whether it has the complete run. It doesn't have the books of collected essays, alas.

k.l.'s picture

So if you have access to the TM, the Big Caslon article is in TM 4/1995 (4 pages, 2 of them with a great showing of the glyph set).
Unfortunately, I still don't have the Untersuchungen zur Geschichte typographischer Schriften. I rely on the nice collection of offprints which was published some time before the book.

K.L. -- you go far back in history!
H.P. -- And part of my point is, you have to.

And I thought you'd offer a contemporary philosopher home story. Much neglected genre.  :)

William Berkson's picture

>contemporary philosopher home story

I know lady philosophers. Lady philosophers are friends of mine. That's why I don't mention them here :)

charles ellertson's picture

Actually, for a women philosopher, you don't have to go back any farther than G.E.M. Anscombe. She did smoke cigars, but as we all learned, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

billtroop's picture

James, weren't some of the TM Caflisch pieces in English? For example, the one on George Abrams's Venetian? I have a copy of that he gave me and I'm sure it was in English. Neither my German nor French is good enough to remember as much as I do of it.

Hrant, it is totally demented to say there are no woman philosophers. Perhaps not until the 20th century but good heavens, in France there is a whole school, in America -- are you mad? You really should read Avital Ronell's The Test Drive which as far as I am concerned is the most important book on philosophy written since Der Fall Wagner. There is a wonderful passage where Ronell suggests, in a play on Jenseits von Gut und Boese, that we are finally Jenseits von Mann und Frau. I think she is right. And she is by the way rather famously not that way inclined, or at least has been.

William, the historical problem with Adobe's optical axes was that they were implemented such that a 72-point master would be printable, without dropout, at six points, and a six point master would be usable at 72. There is a valid commercial reason for this, but it led to mediocre designs. This was an intractable source of friction between me and the type group when I worked with them in 1996-8 or whenever it was. Happily, as shown in some recent work, they have acknowledged that I was right, and their optical axes have finally improved in some of the 'opticals' released after the catastrophic decision to end the multiple master format. (Just look at any street map of London, and you'll see at once that it is a design problem crying out for multiple master fonts and a program such as Lari Software's LightningDraw that knew how to let users work with MMs.) But Adobe's optical work still fails to approach the heights scaled by the Mono/Lino designers of the 1920s and 1930s, or the work of such contemporary designers as Stone and Berlow or, of course, to the extent he works with them, Matthew Carter. Stone's work, as Matthew Carter so generously says, is in a category of its own. I'm sorry if I'm still speaking in generalities; I don't want to cop out of this, but I don't have time right now to show in detail what is right and what is wrong about these typefaces. I have been hoping for some time to write a book about type that would go into these issues. It has got to the point where I have a willing publisher and a willing co-author, but it is still a long way away. In the meantime, just look at a lot of type. I learn something every time I look at a good book published between 1920 and 1970. Just take the example of a government usage guide printed in Monotype 12 point Baskerville with long quotations in 10 point Baskerville. The only way you could even approach the perfection of color in digital is by using Stone's Cycles. By the way, I owe the existence of the offer to write this book to Carol Twombly. She was approached by Godine in the mid-90s for ideas on someone who could write something he envisaged as a successor to Talley of Types. Carol suggested me, and I have not been writing the book ever since, but we try to keep the flame alive.

Hrant, regarding the theme of women in type design, don't forget the hundreds of drawing office girls. Were they mere, low executants, or did they have creative input? I have been trying to test the theory for years that some unsung woman is the true hero(ine) behind the perfection of Monotype metal Bembo. I haven't got very far, though I have identified a possible candidate, thanks to David Saunders. The next clues would lie in the initials on the original drawings. But it is already clear that nobody will ever know who really designed this typeface.

I must discuss the matter with Saunders again, but my hopes for any revelations are not great. David and Pat Saunders know more than anyone else living what actually took place in the Monotype drawing offices, but they came much later, after the War, and they don't know in any real detail what actually happened in the interwar period.

William Berkson's picture

>I don’t have time right now to show in detail what is right and what is wrong about these typefaces

Ok, how about one character in one typeface, at three optical sizes? Or just take those two 'e's from Cycles in your article, and compare those to the Minion e in Adobe's 'note' and 'display' sizes.

I know that from Minion to Minion Pro Slimbach improved it significantly by slightly fattening the serifs, and IIRC narrowing the round characters. But I can't identify a theory at work here. Maybe freed from the multiple masters he was able to refine the characters by proofing them at different sizes and altering them. Or is there a theory at work?

billtroop's picture

William, analyzing Minion over its many permutations would require thousands of words. A nice use of one version of it is the shown in the hardcover edition of Sereny's Speer/Struggle with Truth. The heavy flat paper thickens everything up a necessary trifle. But it is noteworthy that the extremely careful book designer turned kerning off, because using Minion with kerning can create more problems than it solves. It is nice that the typeface is being constantly improved. I have not spoken to Robert Slimbach in almost ten years but when last I did he disliked the face.

I have reached a point where I am not really interested in studying anything but the finest work. For me that constitutes Zapf, Frutiger, Carter, Stone, Berlow. Of these five, only the last three know much about actual typeface design implementation, and they each know a very great deal. Outside of these people I find a lot of interesting and lovely work, but it is all too problemmatical for me to get too involved in it. I must say, in the end, that I think a tyepface can only be properly evaluated when used for the kind of purpose it is intended, a book or a magazine. Of course I am only talking about text type.

I don't think it's right to say that Robert is 'free' from multiple masters. The last I heard, fairly recently, all of his work internally is designed in MM format, and he believes that the format is going to come back, as well it should. However, it is true that, without some sort of substantial intermediate technology, and even that has some limitations, it is seldom possible to do the entire optical range justice with simple interpolation. For that reason Garamond Pro is designed as a multiple master that goes from 6 to 18 points, and another multiple master that goes from 24 to 72. I know that Sumner Stone has worked in even finer gradients. I have never been able to identify a theory in Robert's work. I think he is less intellectual, more intuitive, than people would like to think. I don't like him although I once did very much, and I have yet to find a single person who does like him. But I admire him for pursuing a lot of projects -- such as Garamond Pro -- that he has had to do in his spare time. It is not commonly known, but a lot of big projects that have come out of Adobe have been created in the teeth of managerial opposition. One shudders to think what he is actually obliged to do in working hours -- the things he doesn't want to be working on. Carol wasn't the only person to have problems at Adobe.

You can isolate a single letter and study it and identify good things and bad things in different implementations. But I don't think this is a good way to look at a type. You have to look at it in its totality, and that takes a lot of time. Well, you have to do both. And more!

Does Robert have a theory? I don't really think so. Does anyone, really? Look at the way Carter's spacing evolved from Galliard to Miller. But I'm sorry, I'm just blathering. You've asked for something serious that I just can't give right now.

I _am_ glad Carol got her Caflisch moment!

hrant's picture

Calling yourself a philosopher is easy*. Getting like-minded people to call you a philosopher isn't too hard either. Heck, I've been called all kinds of nice things by people who agree with my more "rousing" ideas - but I have to suspect they're essentially seeing what they want to see, and what I really am will be (or much more likely not be) remembered far into the future. Because what's hard to pull off is being called a philosopher a couple of millennia after you're dead. Of those, the only female we seem to have is Sappho.

* http://www.flickr.com/photos/48413419@N00/416819792/

Anyway I didn't say there were no women philosophers. I was leading off from Bill's interesting view that men are inferior text face designers and implied (among other things) that the degree to which a woman becomes a timeless* philosopher might be tied to her sexual orientation. Of course, I have no Proof.

* Practically speaking, since nothing really is.

> I am not really interested in studying anything but the finest work.

Fine, but from what I've seen of you Bill you're too conservative, too cynical when it comes to the possibility (I myself would even say unavoidability) of fundamental improvement over precedent. You think that dropping the lefthand bar in the "f" and "t" (à la Vafflard) is a big deal (and in this you are very much like Slimbach, William, and many others), while I think it's cosmetic. If I ask you to study Bloemsma's Legato and see the pivotal virgin territory it forges into, you would surely balk. But consider that in nicely stating that "you have to look at [a type] in its totality", you should take that far enough to see that everybody is sill making bunches of glyphs that get shoved together, and the really good stuff has yet to be designed.

hhp

William Berkson's picture

>Isolate a single letter... I don’t think this is a good way to look at a type.

I don't think it is that great either. However, because a good typeface has an iron consistency, in a really good face the 'DNA' will show itself in every character. And so will optical sizing. So discussing one character in several sizes will tell a lot, inspite of its limitations. But you don't want to go there, which of course is your prerogative.

hrant's picture

> a good typeface has an iron consistency

This is entirely superficial - a classical deluded Westernism.

hhp

dezcom's picture

I like "Philosopher Mechanic" a storefront to wrench the mind :-)

ChrisL

Ricardo Cordoba's picture

My, this post has gotten long! Still trying to read everything. In the meantime, I'd like to add to this:

S.U.F.: I can only name one female type designer in the world

W.B.: Zuzana Licko of Emigre is one prominant woman type designer active today.

Here's some more, in no particular order... Just the first ones that came to mind:

Andrea Tinnes
Margo Chase
Sylvia Janssen (more here)
Sibylle Hagmann (more here)
Nina David
Natalia Fernández
Seonil Yun

[Edit: I added the links on April 9]

hrant's picture

Now weed out the ones that cannot really make text faces...

To me the woman-killer seems to be spacing - what makes
type design more like engineering and less like painting.

hhp

ChuckGroth's picture

wb-
i just finished reading "If not... Winter..." by ann carson.
http://www.amazon.com/If-Not-Winter-Anne-Carson/dp/1844080811/ref=pd_bbs...

it's the first book to "restore" sappho's poetry back to the existing, incomplete fragments. most of the 'complete' work we've read in the past has been the result of modern scholars ffilling in the blanks to suggest what sappho MIGHT have written.
at least that's what i got from the book.

ChuckGroth's picture

in any case, this seems to be getting far from the point...

William Berkson's picture

The wikipedia article on Sappho says that most are fragments, but there is one complete poem and two others pretty complete, including the one I quoted.

No journeyman or woman poet could patch that together. It's pure genius, speaking with a stunning freshness, honesty and eloquence.

Christopher Slye's picture

...Garamond Pro is designed as a multiple master that goes from 6 to 18 points, and another multiple master that goes from 24 to 72.

In fact, Garamond Premier (in its present form) was created as four separate, single-axis (weight) MM fonts for each of its optical sizes.

hrant's picture

But technically those can be spliced together into a single MM font, no?
It's just that it would be a waste of effort since MM is no longer supported.

hhp

Christopher Slye's picture

No. They are now completely separate designs. Long ago, it was planned as a single MM design with intemediate masters (like Kepler MM), but during the evolution of the design, Robert split it into separate MMs. Now, each MM is sufficiently evolved that they could not be re-joined.

Si_Daniels's picture

>To me the woman-killer seems to be spacing - what makes
type design more like engineering and less like painting.

Well, this stereotype kind of falls apart when you consider the female hinting experts, Diane Collier, Geraldine Wade, Sue Lightfoot and Glenda de Guzman to name just four. Also on the engineering front I'd credit Judy and Carolyn on my team and Aida Sakkal as knowing more about complex script OpenType engineering than any reasonable person would ever want to.

hrant's picture

I thought I remembered David Lemon once revealing that the MM format can accomodate abrupt shifts at given point sizes (and that this can even be done on individual glyphs), which is a special kind of intermediate design; mathematically speaking, it's not just non-smooth, it's discontinuous. If this is true, then the four MMs could indeed be joined (unless I'm missing something). Which is not to say there's a practical reason to do so, at least not how things stand right now.

hhp

hrant's picture

Spacing and hinting are entirely different types of tasks. That said, certainly stereotypes are meant to fall apart now and again, otherwise they're be boring -and in the end useless- truisms. Stereotyping (which is a result of the mind's natural, and useful, tendency to generalize) is a tool, and like any tool can be used well or poorly, for helping people or for harming them.

hhp

Si_Daniels's picture

Sure, maybe "spacing" is special. It was the engineering vs art comment that got my goat.

hrant's picture

I think Engineering and especially Art are over-loaded terms that are very difficult to use well, and are prone to promoting disagreement where all there really is is lack of clarity, intellectually and/or communicatively.

hhp

SuperUltraFabulous's picture

Ricardo Cordoba> I have never heard of those women before- this of course is due to my own ignorance but also the fact that type design is not something that appeals to many woman. When I said Carol Twombly is the only designer I know, I meant this in the sense of who is immediately important and I consider her the most important female type designer ever. Zuzana Licko and Veronika Elsner are others.

But probably the lest appreciated woman in type who is also one of the most important is Cherie Cone! Behind the greatest living type designer (???) is Cherie- the brains behind the operation who allows Mr. Carter to focus on what he does best while she whips deals into shape!

There are not as many women graphic designers as men- computer technicians, software designers, chip designers, hardware engineers etc.

Does that mean this is wrong? Not always. Women have a choice now (in the usa- elsewhere???). And that includes 'this career sucks!' But what Bill talked about Adobe being a boys club is a very common thing in so many professions its gross- and in 2007 too!!!

In ages past the man worked and the woman tended to the family. Hence the long legacy of male type designers... women type designer from way back when- I for sure never heard of one. So also in that sense of women having very few role models is a stumbling block. But the roads are more open now and there are so many wonderful new ideas flowing from both men and woman in type design.

As far sexuality is concerned, I think a woman can crossover into a typical male role without having to be lesbian. But as the more physically demanding the career get (pro sports, correctional/police officer, industrial, firefighter) you start to see more lesbian women because they these women operate like men. They have heavy builds, deep voices, and dress the part. Another words- they will kick your ass!!!

Not so much for men. Fashion designers, hair stylists, interior decorators, dancers and the like are like 99.99999999% gay and that's the way it is. But wait- those are are gay man roles period... there is no crossing over.

True story:
I sat in mall hair salon waiting for a lady friend of mine to get her do done and the lady stylist was complaining that new clients call up and ask if a man is available, then the nest question is 'is he gay', the receptionist say no but he does great hair. The client might accept. And if only a female is available they just hang up, reschedule or wait till a gay man is available. Carltons Hair Salon if you must know!!!

Welcome to 2007!

Mikey :o)

Nicole Dotin's picture

Hey Bill, the "drawing office girls" prefer to be called women.

And, there are plenty of women type designers. It does no one any favors to presume that women don't want to become type designers or that their natures don't support it. It only reinforces outmoded stereotypes.

Look at the recent years' TDC winners, for example, and you will see a number of women's names producing award-winning work. There are even some text faces in there.

John Nolan's picture

Veronika Burian.

Women are under-represented in most professions, not just type design. I think we can take it as a given that this reflects social pressures, not their "feminine nature". (Can't we?)

billtroop's picture

Sorry, Nicole, I'm speaking historically. Those women are all most unfortunately now dead (the great drawing office ladies of the 20s and 30s) and they were all called girls in the manner of the day, even though some were far from young.

The problem with getting to the bottom of anything at Monotype with regard to the women is that they were not the only class of people treated like dirt. Morison hated all the engineers. It is terribly sad but we are all thirty or forty years too late in trying to get at this history. At least with David and Pat Saunders, we can learn something about the practices of the 40s and 50s -- but that's not what we really want to know.

Speaking of girls and fitting, I think Carol did all her fitting by eye, and believe me she knows what she's doing. Robert, however, has a more scientific way of doing it, especially the italics -- and Carol was the one who wrote up his method -- at my request. It's a method of using slanted guidelines not unknown to others, which Fontlab somewhat facilitates. I believe that until the end, Carol used FontStudio for her work.

I didn't know that Garamond Pro or Extra Fancy or whatever it's now called had got to the point of constituting four separate multiple masters. Doesn't that kind of indicate that you might just as well design each optical size separately, as Stone does most of the time? It's the only way to free yourself . . . . that said, I do like the simplicity of an optical axis going evenly from 8 to 72, and I do think it can be accomplished with something pretty close to perfection. Perhaps I am deluding myself however.

Ultimately I don't think it's gender that's important in type, I think it's teamwork.

William Berkson's picture

>it was planned as a single MM design with intemediate masters (like Kepler MM), but during the evolution of the design, Robert split it into separate MMs.

That is what I meant, Bill T, by being 'freed' from MM--not that it wouldn't be used in production, but that there was no requirement that the user be able to output a whole range of sizes from a single MM font.

>It’s a method of using slanted guidelines

Are you referring to the technique explained by Mark Simonson here:
http://typophile.com/node/19788 ?

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