QuarkXPress vs. Adobe Indesign

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Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
QuarkXPress vs. Adobe Indesign
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> The Quark feature wasn’t too reliable

Always worked fine with me.

Wait, hold it, whatamIdoinghere?! Am I on drugs or what?
Let’s get one thing straight:

QuarkXPress $u

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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\blink{…} rewls!

Kills me every time I use it. Thank you Typophile!

seanmichael's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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Thanks, HD. :-)

My most trusted pre-press man tells me that
a natively created transparency in ID causes
him heartbreak when going to rip. That is his
biggest complaint from ID so far.

Has anyone else seen this?

Benjamin's picture
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Joined: 20 Jan 2003 - 5:21am
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thanx anonymous!

HD Schellnack's picture
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003 - 9:08am
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All native transparencies so far are problematic, as far as I know.

ID is a step beyond what current RIPs can do, as it works with a newer Acrobat code (5, most RIPs use 4… with the next gen of Raster Image Processors there should be no problem anymore) so transparencies and layers are a kind of problem, although not really in practice. ID produces perfectly nifty Acrobet 4-Files by changing part of the layout into bitmap-images. Sounds scary, I know — but for Schauspielhaus Bochum I used lots of the then-completely-new layer technique in ID2 because there was basically no time to do the stuff in Photoshop — Shading areas, multiplying layers, transparency FX, layering additive colours and so on… and was afraid as heck. Worked like a charm, no problem whatsoever with the Acrobat File. There was no change in color, fonts were crispy and all that. You can manually edit these changed what the German edition of ID calls Transparenzreduzierungsformate in the Edit-dropdown, so something along the line of Transparency and Reduction should be the right thing. :-) Or you take — for RIP-Output — the HIGH predefined Quality in the printing dialogue. (It just sounds difficult as I don’t know the english terms, in fact its effing easy… sorry… )

Zak Williamson's picture
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Joined: 13 Jun 2003 - 5:19pm
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Worrying thing No. 1

While it’s not as convenient as having a special non-breaking space that stretches with justification, you can get this effect by applying the “No Break” attribute from the Character palette menu to a normal space character or to the two or more words you don’t want to have break across lines.

seanmichael's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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I follow you HD. The trouble free thing to do
would be to run the file through Acrobat and
send that along to your printer until RIP moves
up to 5.

Thanks. That seems to be inline with what
some pre-press folks said to me this
afternoon just after I posted my question.

I think that will work just fine. I’m sending more
and more PDFs to the printer anyway.

Zak Williamson's picture
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Joined: 13 Jun 2003 - 5:19pm
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Worrying thing No. 2

From the Adobe web site:
The Adobe

Anonymous's picture
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Joined: 6 Mar 2002 - 1:06pm
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Geen probleem Letter Tiep;-)

Benjamin's picture
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Joined: 20 Jan 2003 - 5:21am
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wow
2 questions answered!
bedankt (en het werkt!)

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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THX Zak, I thought ‘No Break’ worked on paragraph level;
I didn’t know you could apply it to a couple of words too.
I’ll try this out. And THX again for the 2.0.2 link.

I’ve also got some major problems with Expert fonts from
my Bitstream CD-ROM, but I’ll get back to that after I tried
them out with 2.0.2.

HD Schellnack's picture
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003 - 9:08am
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One MASSIVE Problem I have with ID is that Adobe changed the Glyphname structure with OpenType, so that some more complex fonts have problems. Luc(as) de Groots Sun, for example doesn’t work properly with ID. If you change a word from Sun to SunSC (Small Caps), the letters vanish and you get that pink background informing you of missing fonts… only when you manually re-enter the word, you get small caps. Sucks like hell.

Joshua Moore's picture
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Joined: 12 Jun 2003 - 10:51am
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Qrk6 seems to pushing the idea of using quark also as a way to create data-driven web content using the qrk data server… who are they trying to compete with on that? macromedia, sun, microsoft, php…. are they looney.

maybe the next version of amazon.com will be all done in quark…..

and i do love IDOT support is rad, and i hope it really takes off. the comfy adobe interface…. totally intuitive

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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PS I’d like to thank Zak for joining us on the Typophile Board
and providing us with information. Instead of redirecting us
to the Adobe forums, he chose to devote some of his time
in order to help us out.

Now, I wonder how long it will take before a software engineer
from Quark will join us… ;)

Jean F Porchez's picture
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Joined: 7 Jan 2003 - 11:00am
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Not sure its truly related but I announced this discussion on the Indesign Beta list couple of days ago.

I have not connection with a Xpress Beta list, and I really don’t want. ;-)

Zak Williamson's picture
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Joined: 13 Jun 2003 - 5:19pm
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Re: Sun and SunSC
I suspect the behavior you’re seeing is related to the fact InDesign uses Unicode rather than platform encoding. Try holding down the Command and Option keys (Control and Alt on Windows) when changing the font. This will cause InDesign to attempt to mimic the behavior of platform encoding, which should provide the results you expect.

Zak Williamson's picture
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Joined: 13 Jun 2003 - 5:19pm
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Thanks for the welcome. I’m not likely to become a regular, too many pans in the fire already, but I’ll drop in and answer questions when I can.

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Related, or perhaps not, to the sun/sunsc problem. I was having problems with Mason and Mason Sans. None of the bold weight would preview. I’d get errors “can’t finish preview” in Illustrator and InDesign would crash. I uninstalled Font Reserve and installed Suitcase, didn’t solve it. I emailed Emigre and they emailed me newer versions, et voil

Anonymous's picture
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Joined: 6 Mar 2002 - 1:06pm
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I like InDesign, and, frankly, have been giving my disk away to designers, service bureaus, friends, etc. to install. I believe that, while it will not supplant QE, it will gie it a run for its money. Much easier to use, and Illustrator is almost “built in”. “Tipping Point” soon to be reached.

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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(…) have been giving my disk away to designers, service bureaus,
friends, etc. to install.


You can’t really do that, can you? You want to reward Quark
for their hardware dongle policy?

I mean, there is a try-out version available if people want
to check the software before purchasing a license.

Joe Pemberton's picture
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Joined: 8 Apr 2002 - 3:36pm
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> Hardware dongle policy…

Not sure what you mean, Yves, but it sounds scandalous!

I’m personally responsible for converting the entire in-
house art department for a client. Correction: I gave them
the facts, they converted themselves.

Tom DeForest's picture
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Joined: 10 Apr 2002 - 11:00am
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Joe…what were those facts exactly?

A hardware dongle goes into a port on the back of the computer (used to be a parallel port, I think). Without that piece of hardware in that port the software won’t launch. It’s kind of like sticking a key in a locked door to open it.

Héctor Muñoz Huerta's picture
Joined: 21 Feb 2003 - 11:00am
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You have nice chances on using the appropiate software for publishing. Here in M

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Okay, there ARE a couple of minor details in InDesign
that worry me. Whilst I’m toiling away, I will bring them
up here ‘au fur et

Joe Pemberton's picture
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Joined: 8 Apr 2002 - 3:36pm
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Tom,

This was before the Quark 6 release and it wasn’t a very
formal case, nor did they require a lot of convincing. I think
the facts speak for themselves.

Even if you consider Xpress and InDesign as equally
equipped / powerful / reliable / and user friendly, the cost
savings alone present a compelling argument.

An Adobe “Design Collection,” including InDesign, Photoshop,
Illustrator and Acrobat is $1199 US.

If you have to buy Illustrator and Photoshop anyway, which
retail separately for about $1000 together, you can buy the
Design Collection and get InDy and Acrobat for $200. (InDy
by itself is about $800.)

QuarkXPress by itself costs $1045 US.

Total savings of switching to InDesign is about $800
per user.

Tom DeForest's picture
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Joined: 10 Apr 2002 - 11:00am
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Oh, those facts…

Yves Peters's picture
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Worrying thing No. 2
When outputting films or exporting to a PDF from a document
which features text with ‘Optical Kerning’, character spacing
sometimes goes berserk and ends up all over the place.

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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Never experienced Worrying Thing No. 2 in my year of
using InD. I do a lot of Optical Kerning and a lot of PDF
exporting and printing. I wonder what’s up there.

Benjamin's picture
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Joined: 20 Jan 2003 - 5:21am
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Worrying thing No. 1
hmmm, yes that’s true, but all other spaces in InDesign (ie hair space, thin space, en space, etc) are also always non-breaking. So if there is really a big hole in your line, you can replace it with one of them and it still won’t break. But indeed, it would be more practical if it would go along with the rest. And I also noticed that the non-breaking space keeps the same width when you increase/decrease the wordspace.

What I need is a word counter! I know there exists one for windows, but it isn’t available for Mac. There used to be a script in 1.5 who could do that, but it disappeared.

And palettes that stick!

Anonymous's picture
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Joined: 6 Mar 2002 - 1:06pm
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Word counter script (paste in script editor, clean up the line breaks and save as script in the indesign scripts folder):
tell application “InDesign 2.0.2”
try
set theSel to object reference of selection
if class of theSel is text frame then
set theSel to object reference of parent story of theSel
else if class of theSel is insertion point then
set theSel to object reference of parent story of parent text frame of theSel
else if class of theSel is not in {text, character} then
error
end if
on error
activate
display dialog “Please select a story or range of text for which you want a word count before running this script.”
return
end try
activate
display dialog ((count of words of theSel) as string) & ” words”
end tell

seanmichael's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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At my job, we often design low budget stuff in two
Pantone spot colors. While Quark can mix those
colors, provide satisfying screen preview and output
those files on film perfectly, InDesign doesn’t know
how to handle this, to my disappointment.


Oh. That is a bummer. I use multi-ink all the
time in Quark. Especially to make blacks really
nice. You could always make a DCS2 file in
PS, but that seems like a pain for just a flood
of color or something.


Does anyone know how ID handles DCS2 files when going to plate?

HD Schellnack's picture
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003 - 9:08am
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DCS 2 is not a problem.

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