Lawyer cards

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Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
Lawyer cards
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This is a free design I’m doing for a friend of mine. So, I’ve designed this typographic logo for his name and build up the “ci” ligature. Don’t really want/can spend more time on this, but let me know what do you think on the typography & design in general. It has the Metalic Silver pantone + Pantone 7427. Which card do you like more? Notice the ENORMOUS email I had to place it on the back…

Thanks.

Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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Very nice logo. The word spacing in “da costa” feels a little wide.

I definitely prefer the card on the right. The red on the bottom right really draws the viewers eye. I can’t quite tell what information is there at this size, but I would suggest making it the most important (phone, services description, or whatever is the priority info). If your friend can’t afford to pay you, then he might appreciate going with the one color backside.

Aloha!
Scott

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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(1) The left version (top image) is preferrable. The red across the bottom acts as a solid base. It also allows the assymetry of the name and info to stand out more. Also, the gray on the back (in the red) is almost the same tone and so is disappearing (at least on my monitor).

(2) You should as your rep at the press if the price might be similar if you printed the job as work-and-turn, that is if you want to keep the red on the back.

(3) Should the vertical line separating the name and company be centered with the x-height instead?

(4) Should the letter spacing of “da costa” be wider? The st ligature you are using , I think, needs it.

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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Thanks again. I’ve aligned the vertical line with the x-height, made the letter spacing on da costa wider according to the ST ligature and made 2 more variations. I came up with this:



Ok, your final veredict. Which card (no problem on the back color printing) & which logo (bold / regular.

Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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The dividing line in the logo seems too thin. Dividing lines should have some relationship to the type it is dividing. It probably shouldn’t be much lighter/thinner than the thinnest connection on the ligatures

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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I’m with Scott. I really like the newer solution, far right. I also agree about the vertical stroke. I prefer the top left version for weight. The contrast is better.

Do you need information on the back?

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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I also agree on the vertical stroke. If I’ll go with the far right, the email will fit on this new design and I could just leave the back card on plain red, with no type (and of course no film development).

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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Great job Adriano!

The vertical divider still seems a hair thin (if it’s .5 pt, then make it .75 pt). I dunno, maybe the ink will gain enough to solve it on its own.

Aloha!
Scott

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004 - 12:20pm
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Adriano, this last one is the best yet. Nice work

Randy Jones's picture
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Joined: 23 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Hi Adriano.

Watch the ost combination in costa. os needs more space.
st needs a hair less. The joy of Mrs. Eaves.

Randy.

Dan Madden's picture
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Joined: 4 Dec 2003 - 11:00am
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I like the right side as well.

This looks nice, but my one concern is the thickness of “carlos felicio”. Beside the fact that I’ve never been a fan of Mrs. Eaves bold, I think the red could be enough to stand out on that all-white card.

Good luck!

Kyle Hildebrant's picture
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Joined: 7 Jan 2003 - 11:00am
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Randy —

Do you find the kerning a little awkward in Mrs. Eaves? Or is it that it works better a true text sizez? Curious if anyone else experienced this.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Good eye. A Classicist would say that Mrs Eaves’s spacing is her “hamartia”. It’s a very pretty font that can’t really be used for text (unless you use InDesign’s wonderful “optical spacing” feature).

hhp

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Totally agree with you guys. Mrs. Eaves is very beautiful, but a pain to work with. I wonder … I think …. if the serifs have anything to do with it, that and the small x-height. The serifs seem so much more than just serifs, almost a design element in and of themselves.

Kyle Hildebrant's picture
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Joined: 7 Jan 2003 - 11:00am
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Glad Im not alone. Its the “Display Text Face”, right? :-)

Randy Jones's picture
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Joined: 23 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Do you find the kerning a little awkward in Mrs. Eaves?
Mrs. Eaves has kerning?  :-)

Yeah it has issues. In this case I think the letterspacing was tightened, but the ligature was not. But the crossbar on the t is not helping at all. Look how stunted it is! Adriano, consider lengthening it and shortening the tail to help the spacing. It is a beauty though, no doubt. Unique.

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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Ok guys, The client wanted the right card, I’ll do a final version and before sending it to print I’ll show it here. Thanks again for the feedback, and yes, Mr. Eaves is so tricky. Have you seen it use on Radiohead’s Hail to the Thief?

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Cool. Yes, that Radiohead CDIMO … uses Mrs. Eaves successfully.

Dan Madden's picture
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Joined: 4 Dec 2003 - 11:00am
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Regarding Hail to the Thief, I wasn’t thrilled with Donwood’s overall design, from copying Scher for the imagery to missing some smart quotes and some italics being unreadably small, it looked a bit sloppy. Cool packaging for the Special Edition, though. And we’ve all got our opinion on Mrs. Eaves.

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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Hi. So I’ve done a lot of changes. Finally bought a color laser printer and that helped a lot to see the “errors”. I’ve shortened the “t” tail, and corrected the “st” ligature. Increased the vertical divider to 0,6 (0,75 was too much). Made the font a little bigger for the text. Below you have the before & after plus the “final” card. Tell me what you think before revealing the films tomorrow.

What do you think as the SILVER pantone for the text with Pantone 7427 combination?

Romesh Naik's picture
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Joined: 16 Sep 2002 - 11:14am
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I like this card very much but I think the silver text is a bit to light and difficult to read. Just a suggestion, you might mix the silver with black (70% silver 30% black)

My old buisiness-card was also printed with silver mixed with black (50%/50%) but this was a little to dark.

On what kind of paper will you print?

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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Thanks Scott & Daniel.

I’ve uploaded a second version of the logo without the bold&regular Mr. Eaves and I think it’s more balanced (the bold/regular leap is very big on this family). Also the Costa was in fact with lowsy kerning, I’ve changed that also. About the back print of the card, just the email or plain white on the red print? Is there a need to repeat the logo on the back of the card? I usually do this.. hum.

I’ve replaced the info I had on the red block with the tel& fax. Comments are always welcome.

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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Good suggestion Romesh! Thanks. I’ll print it on a papper called DALI NEVE 220gr. It has a slight texture (see macro photo below). Do you have any other suggestion? Maybe Cotton Soft or plain uncoated? What do you think work best here?


Romesh Naik's picture
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Joined: 16 Sep 2002 - 11:14am
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for a lawyer I would prefer something with cotton and plain/uncoated. cotton has this very soft feeling.

do you know crane-crest? its made out of 100 % cotton and manufactured by the papermill that makes the dollar-bills-paper and the buisiness paper for the us-president (maybe a nice story for the client). its quite expensive. similar to this paper is arjo wiggins conqueror, connoisseur. If your’re looking for something cheaper, try munken pure (without Cotton)

http://www.crane.com/navDepartment.aspx?Name=BusinessPapersandBulkSocialStock
http://www.arjowiggins.com/
http://www.arcticpaper.com

Romesh Naik's picture
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Joined: 16 Sep 2002 - 11:14am
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ps: if you’re printing on a uncoatet, rough paper you won’t get much of the silver lustre. It will look more grey. If you want the silver shining, you have to use coated or uncoated and very smoth paper.

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Thanks for your links! I’ve phoned to the tipography and seems they can get Conqueror Connoiseur original white or 100% cotton white. Seems to be a good choice, and can keep the silver. Crane papers are excelent, but way expensive :-) maybe on another lawyer stationary I’m doing (will post it here soon).

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004 - 12:20pm
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http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/21003.html

I just saw this article on printing on uncoated paper, it might be interesting.

Scott Keawekane's picture
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Joined: 2 Sep 2003 - 1:56pm
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The word spacing (not letter spacing) in “da costa” is still a little much compared to the spacing in “carlos felicio”. Even if the spacing was the same mathmatically/technically, optically the height of the red “f” and the lightness of the silver make it feel more open in comparison.

I don’t necessarily think the logo/title needs to be on the backside of the card. In fact, the value of the red as an identifier is stronger without the name. In other words, with the presence of the logo/title you focus on the company name, but without it you focus on the flooded red color, which might be a distinguishing factor in their visual communications (if they do much of it).

Aloha!
Scott

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004 - 12:20pm
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Adriano, I have a few questions: Are the business cards going to be on coated or uncoated paper and will the paper have a texture? If its on uncoated paper you might want to loose the full bleed red back especially if there is a texture to the stock. You can have the best typography in the world and it can be ruined on press.

One other thought is Red reminds me of Stop Signs, especially with Knock Out type. Red also signals danger.

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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I’m planning to use uncoated paper with a minor texture. So yes, maybe it’s wise to loose the back red. This color was my first thought but tell me which color do you think matches this lawyer market, I’ll only present this card tomorrow to the client. Thanks again.

HD Schellnack's picture
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Joined: 20 Feb 2003 - 9:08am
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Verrrry beautiful, although I’m not sure about the MetaDesign-esque rectangular at the bottom, it has a kind of 80s feeling that doesn’t really mesh with the rest. Other than that, ligatures and everything.. nice and solid for a lawyer.
I like the red, btw. It fits the PMS877 and isaggressive, which I’d personally say is a GOOD quality in a lawyer (as long as he is on your side). Blue is such a standard colour for advocats, as is dark green. Red is it, if you ask me. The first feeling is often the right one. If you know the guy — is he more agressive or more a laid back person? if the former, go ahead with red. Maybe you can use a bit of a darker tone to mellow it a bit, if need be.

Uncoated paper with such a full bleed CAN work, if the prrinter knows what he does and the type isn’t too small. Imo, the subtle inclusions and structures in the paper, the small imperfections ARE what makes it work in that case.

The right hand card in the first example has such a nice red background and the type is neat, if it technically is workable, you should use that, with a motto or something.

Btw, the only thinhg I don’t like is the arrangement of the type on the card-front. It looks much nicer on the back in the left-hand example, more symmetric and in-the-middle, a better use of proportion and white-space.

Daniel Weaver's picture
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Joined: 17 Jan 2004 - 12:20pm
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I think if your friend isn’t paying you for the job then its probably true he isn’t going to pay for a high end printer. I’d loose the full-bleed knock-out if you aren’t going to be on press. Stay with your original colors but have a plan if your client reacts to the red.

Adriano Esteves's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2003 - 4:42am
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No problem on getting a good high end printing. One of his clients owns one so, free of charge for him too for the printing… I’m starting to think the lawyers can get almost everything for law support :-). Thanks for your valuable feedback HD, I’ll upload a final version later tonight! and yes, red fits the guy very well :-) agression! Let’s put this on trial! He told me twice :-)