Whats does Mickey Mouse and the Swaztika have in common and what differences?

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missgiggles's picture
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Whats does Mickey Mouse and the Swaztika have in common and what differences?
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Apart from them being the same colours and the fact that Hitler dipised the Jews and so did Walt Disney. They were both icons of the 1930's but the swaztika symbolised good luck. Is that true? and why would Hitler not allow students to wear the Micky Mouse badge when they were supporting Hitler? That's weird and he made them wear the swaztika instead. Did you know that Hitler was found with a Mickey mouse watch on? Hmmmm...so why did he get rid of Mickey mouse badges from students then? So back to my original question, they were both meant to be symbols but what of? Symbols of power? Were they both rebelious?
What about the crucifix and the swaztika? Do they have much more in common than that of Mickey mouse and the swaztika? I know that the swaztika is a bent cross from the religious cross so it derives from there but it was meant to be a symbol of well being. So from my knowledge, did the swaztika come before the cross or after but then it's confusing because they say that the swaztika derived from the cross so what came first? Anyone able to confirm?

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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> the swaztika is a bent cross from the religious cross

No, it's much older than Christianity.
Although the cross as an "abstract" symbol is older still.

You might be interested in getting a copy of "The Cross as
Symbol & Ornament", J Troyer, 1961. The text of which
is all hand-lettered BTW (although it's not too much).

hhp

Thomas W Phinney's picture
Joined: 3 Sep 2002 - 11:00am
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The swastika dates back to the neolithic period. The cross is probably an even older symbol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross

As for what these symbols "mean" it depends on whose ascribed meaning you're talking about, and when.

Cheers,

T

Jonathan Greenslade's picture
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 - 6:37am
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Is this a joke?

Some questions are so dumb they are impossible to answer.

You should first try some basic research before posting a thread for discusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research

Hrant H Papazian's picture
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Dumber than any question is assuming a canned answer.

hhp

Chuck Groth's picture
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No. It's true. I also heard that Mussalini had a cedar chest (hidden behind a bookcase in his private study) filled with rubber chickens (ancient symbol of bad wedding reception dinners) and seltzer bottles, although publicly, he claimed to hate Vaudeville.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_chicken

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Ricardo Cordoba's picture
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Blank's picture
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Apart from them being the same colours and the fact that Hitler dipised the Jews and so did Walt Disney.

Wow, that line is SO much funnier than it should be.

Anyway, Walt Disney was a big Nazi sympathizer for a while when he was trying to get a German film distribution deal. It didn’t last. Anyway, you should have no trouble finding stuff about this if you start hitting up the libraries.

missgiggles's picture
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Why do some people on here think i am DUMB? I am certainly not what you think I am!!! By the way, sorry to those peopel who took it serious (unlike the silly peopel who did not! You know who you are.) Anyway, Thomas, you said that the cross would have come about before the swaztika. My research suggests that teh swaztika used to be a symbol of peace in Hinduism way before the cross but then the Nazi's turned it around, I think 90 degrees and used it.
Jpad, why would my line be soooo funny? I'm being straight to the point without any extra waffling. Is that meant to be funny? I don't know what's so wrong? i'm totally not with you. I really arn't.
Wormwood, maybe you're a joke! My question is defiantely realistic and there is definitely some connnection. Maybe you're just not aware of it in the contexual manner. Sorry but I had to mention that. it upsets me that people just think I am dumb, when in actual fact, i'm not! Sheeesh, what is the world coming to.

Dan Reynolds's picture
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I don't think that you are dumb, and I hope that no one else here thinks that you are dumb either. I think that your ideas for your thesis are a bit too broad. This is something that happens or has happened to a lot of students—myself included. The trick is to narrow yourself down to one specific topic, and then discover the depth inside that and describe that well and persuasively. If you do that, your thesis will be great. Focus on one thing, though. You can't do everything! (nor should you!)

Chuck Groth's picture
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I didn't think you were dumb, either; I just didn't think you were serious. Your question sounded a lot more like someone having a bit of fun on a Saturday afternoon.

[an edit to show it can be done]

missgiggles's picture
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Sorry I did not mean to say that. I feel really bad now and I can't even delete it. Sorry, OMG! How could I say something like that. Sorry.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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You can't delete it? I thought you said you weren't a blonde?

hhp

missgiggles's picture
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Dont want to upset any more people do I? an yup I can delete and have deleted it so :D

missgiggles's picture
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By the way, why is this post also on
http://dotsandloops.net/headlines/iid/347173

I wonder...and Ricardo, where did you find that image? Was it in an article? Have a look at this
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3409

Is Hitler's nose a Mickey Mouse nose in that image?
http://mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2006/02/mickey_mouse_po.html

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Mickey%20Mouse

http://www.bertisevil.tv/pages/bert003.htm

So this question is not a joke, I can reassure you. I'm looking at in the contexual, historic manner which includes political too.

Mili Carr's picture
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The swastika is an ancient symbol of sun, also a good luck symbol
See the history of the symbol of the Finnish air force pre-Hitler
http://www.sci.fi/~ambush/faf/faf.html

I know I've posted this before to the Darfur thread, there's more about the symbol there
http://typophile.com/node/31690

missgiggles's picture
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seen this poster with the swaztika on the tail? http://www.universityofthepoor.org/schools/artists/wwII/goebbels.htm

Chuck Groth's picture
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but i was serious about the rubber chickens and seltzer

Blank's picture
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I don’t think that you’re dumb, but sometimes your matter-of-fact way of stating things is amusing. It’s probably because I’m a pretentious fop who needs at least a paragraph to say much of anything.

Patricia Fabricant's picture
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 - 9:40am
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Dyslexia aside Faz, if you put more care into the wording and spelling of your posts, and organized your thoughts a little more coherently, you might get taken more seriously here. I have said this before. Contrary to what you seem to think, I am not out to get you! It might help to listen to what people say instead of getting defensive.

Your curiosity and variety of interests is admirable and the last thing I want is to discourage you. But your posts read like you composed them on the fly, and yet you expect (and often get) extremely thoughtful responses from the patient folk on this forum. It's a two-way street.

Chuck Groth's picture
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and the vaudeville

Jonathan Greenslade's picture
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 - 6:37am
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I did not say YOU were dumb. Though there is evidence to suggest it...

user account
Full name: missgiggles
City: england

the swaztika used to be a symbol of peace in Hinduism way before the cross but then the Nazi’s turned it around, I think 90 degrees and used it.

Maybe I am a joke. I've often thought so.

Maybe you should think about losing that chip on your shoulder and how it got there in the first place.

Chuck Groth's picture
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the youth of today...

Chuck Groth's picture
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I don't know what you're driving at. England is one of my favorite cities.

Anyway, I would absolutely love to see gci footage of goose-stepping troops wearing Mickey Mouse insignia armbands. Could anything be better? (I'm being serious)

(I've decided to include the additive "I'm being serious" each time I actually AM being serious, so as to avoid confusion in the future)

Ricardo Cordoba's picture
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Anyway, I would absolutely love to see gci footage of goose-stepping troops wearing Mickey Mouse insignia armbands.

This post comes from that same parallel universe... ;-)

Ricardo Cordoba's picture
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Chuck Groth's picture
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yes...

(I'm serious)

Jonathan Greenslade's picture
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the youth of today…

Don't you mean 'the Hitler Youth of today'?

footage of goose-stepping troops wearing Mickey Mouse insignia armbands

It sounds like something I may have already seen in some nu punk video.

Chuck Groth's picture
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I think you may be thinking of Pink Floyd. Or maybe I'M thinking of Pink Floyd...

(i'm serious)

Jonathan Greenslade's picture
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Yeah, possibly the film version of 'The Wall'.

Chuck Groth's picture
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This is just a statement:

My sides hurt.

(I'm serious)

Blank's picture
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Wow, a single image with Nazism, Mickey Mouse, references to George Bush, AND fake condensed Comic Sans.

Only in a Miss Giggles thread...

AzizMostafa's picture
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On the 90 degrees notes: Why are the Giggles in that picture coming from the wrong source and in the wrong direction?!

Ricardo Cordoba's picture
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Aziz, like I've said before, those are emanations of Gigglespeak. Highly toxic stuff.

(I'm not serious.)

Vincent Connare's picture
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Burj al-Arab

symbols of peace and love can also be found in many places.

The Tower of the Arabs greets boats approaching Dubai with a huge Christian cross.

AzizMostafa's picture
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Sadly, against the outward thereof most such places soft+mercy,
but the inward thereof thorns+chastisement?!

Shreyas.R.Krishnan's picture
Joined: 14 Mar 2007 - 4:00pm
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well, we did discuss the swastika in our mythologies course. The swastika has been used in three contexts(in history i mean).
In Hinduism, apart from luck its also a symbol of sorts of protection from evil.
If im right,It is also a part of Nordic culture. It stood for the unity/brotherhood and blah blah.
The national socialist party(germany) or the nazis, used the same cocept of brotherhood, twisted it to include racial superiority as well. And obviously, the swastika became infamous thanks to the nazis and Hitler.
As for the mickey mouse..no clue..

Shreyas

Gus Winterbottom's picture
Joined: 19 Oct 2006 - 11:46am
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Don't overlook the Celtic triskelion, triple spiral, and running man symbols. They may only have three segments, but they're Indo-European solar and good luck symbols nonetheless. There's also the lauburu (Basque cross) and the Japanese tomoe.

Now, since there were three Axis members (ignoring, of course, the twenty-odd minor powers, co-belligerents, puppet states, and collaborator states), but the swastika has four legs, that can only mean that Hitler intended to enlist one more major power. Certainly, there were significant fascist and pro-German movements in the United States before WWII. Was Walt Disney Hitler's front man and subliminal propagandist in the United States?

Well, when Leni Riefenstahl went to the US in 1938 to try to make film deals, Walt Disney was the only studio head who met with her. This means you should look for hidden Mickeys* in Victory of the Faith, Triumph of the Will, Day of Freedom, Festive Nuremberg, Olympia, and Tiefland. You can use the Chryse Planitia or Cydonia filters in Photoshop to do so (these were originally developed by NASA to identify human faces on Mars**).

* http://www.hiddenmickeys.org/WhatIs.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_Mickey

** http://www.marstoday.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=15245
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast24may_1.htm

Hrant H Papazian's picture
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I know that everyone on typophile is supposed to only provide constructive criticism, and that most everyone here is quite genteel, but I have to say that missgiggles's posts have only gotten more bizarre and demanding over the last six months, and I do not understand why someone who is asking for help is so frequently rude as well as unable to articulate even the most basic ideas.

missgiggles's picture
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'Bizarre'? It's not bizarre...food for thought you could say! By the way, who said you can't learn from someone not as experienced as you guys/women on here. I may be little in the design industry now but doesn't mean to say I don't have big ambitions... So am I still bizarre? Arn't designers suppose to be bizarre so they can come up with innovative designs and ideas etc? Hmmm...food for thought (I am serious)

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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I live for bizarre.

hhp

Patricia Fabricant's picture
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 - 9:40am
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Designers are supposed to be articulate and professional and communicate their ideas well. Designers are supposed to be able to take criticism along with encouragement and not stamp their feet and go on the attack when people offer constructive advice. Designers should be able to learn from their mistakes and not repeat them. Being bizarre is rather low on the list of qualities a successful designer should strive for. However, on this forum, I do find it endlessly entertaining. Swastikas and Mickey Mouse, why the hell not?

Bob Evans's picture
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Think Different - Bizarre:
markedly unusual in appearance, style, or general character and often involving incongruous or unexpected elements; outrageously or whimsically strange; odd: bizarre clothing; bizarre behavior. markedly unusual in appearance, style, or general character and often involving incongruous or unexpected elements; outrageously or whimsically strange; odd: bizarre clothing; bizarre behavior.

Patricia Fabricant's picture
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 - 9:40am
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You left out the bottom part:

—Synonyms weird, freakish, grotesque, ludicrous.

Bob Evans's picture
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Artists and Designers try to elevate the bottom parts and shoot for higher things

Chuck Groth's picture
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The bottom part's the best part (of definitions, I mean)

(I'm only a little serious)

FlorianCH's picture
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Oh my god, this thread is so hilarious… Ms Giggles, your questioning technique is really unrivalled and beyond comparison. I also always admire the patience and the ›helper syndrome‹ of all the experts involved.

Gus Winterbottom's picture
Joined: 19 Oct 2006 - 11:46am
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Um. I must have been too subtle (a first if so). The second and third paragraphs of my first post are jokes.

FlorianCH's picture
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I think that was unmistakable, Gus.