H&Js, especially Js

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Chris Rugen's picture
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Joined: 19 Aug 2003 - 11:00am
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Yeah, the Cmnd+Backslash is a great, easy way to speed up bulleted and numbered lists.

Hmmm… Other tips… A lot of them are covered here, I must say. My biggest time savers are key commands, such as (at a PC now, have to do this from memory) Cmnd+Option+Shift+< or > and Cmnd+Shift+< or > to size type quickly. Can’t think of any others off the top of my head.

For general usability, I change the color of my Quark guides to paler, subtler versions of the garish and distracting defaults. It’s surprising how much nicer it is.

[EDIT] Oh, I just thought of another (which is probably more common): use the enter/ return key on the number keypad to insert the equivalent of a page break, that will kick the next text element to the next column/text box (depending on what the situation is). Shift + numeric keypad return forces it to the next box, overriding any columns, if I’m not mistaken.



I believe the ‘flush zone’ is an area that forces the last line in a justified paragraph to justify flush with the right side when it gets inside of a certain zone. I think. I’ve never used it. That would probably explain why setting it to zero doesn’t seem to have much effect.</font>

Kent Lew's picture
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Joined: 21 Apr 2002 - 11:00am
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Em —

The flush zone is exactly as Chris says. The value you enter for flush zone will determine when the H&J engine will stretch the last line of a justified paragraph. A setting of zero means that it will never force justify the last line.

Some typographers prefer that if a last line gets close to the full measure, it should go ahead and be set full justified.

If you want to see this effect, set your flush zone to something fairly large, like 25% of your column width. Then apply to some text. If you have a paragraph with a last line at least 75% of the measure, you’ll see that it gets stretched out to full justify.

A more realistic range for an appropriate flush zone setting is on the order of a few points, if at all. I personally never use it.

— K.

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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I must say I never allow Break Capitalized Words
and do it manually only when it’s really necessary.
I’d rather be doing it myself than noticing afterwards
the machine did it for me in an unacceptable place.

2-letter breaks make a tiny bit more sense in Dutch,
but the same goes here: only manually.

Furthermore I’ve always been very queasy about
allowing character space: it never fails to annoy me
even in as little as 1%. Or am I imagining things? :-)

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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> I’m working in Quark 4.1.

BTW Use InDesign. Three words: Adobe Paragraph Composer. :-)

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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I started to prepare an answer here, but I am so glad to see Kent
wrote one instead. I concur on all points, and add only that if
there is any way you can do the job in InDesign, do it. InD’s
spacing engine is much more advanced and the options more
complete. Remember too that Hyphenation is as important as
Justification in that they are interrelated. One affects the results
of the other.

Also, highlight Kent’s statements where he says that H&J settings
will vary depending on line measure, leading and typeface.
The only way to get optimum settings is by testing various
parameters and checking the results. Print lots of test pages
before you settle on a standard. Each typesetting scenario is unique.

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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> don’t use Quark’s defaults

Smartest advice in this whole thread. :-) I’ve always
wondered: does anybody here ever use the “Flush Zone”
or -gasp- “Single Word Justify”. I’d really like to know.
I’m utterly convinced they put that in there just to
scare the $h!t out of any self-respecting typographer/
graphic designer…

…or maybe that was a special request by David Carson?

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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To me, Quark’s defaults are proof, among other things, that the
company does not value typography as a priority.

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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I brought some work home this weekend

I see you’ve taken Nick’s guidelines to heart. Welcome to the type nerd club.

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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The nerd club, hmmm. Do we have a secret handshake?

It hasn’t been formally agreed upon, but I nominate a simple hug,
as prompted by Peter Bruhn.

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Heh, funny to read Erik’s guidelines. Picked up the 80% wordspace
during my month at Meta. And the increased tracking at small sizes.

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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C’mon Dan, we’re talking realistic working situations here. :-)
This is an easy way out. If I did that for every magazine and
newsletter I had to design my output would be halved. A major
part of our job is finding solutions to specific problems, isn’t it?

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Oh that Jon Coltz! He tickles my funny bone!!

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Tho I aknowledge Mr. Slimbach’s superior type design
skills I must admit most of his designs are just too
slick for my taste. Make no mistake: he’s brilliant,
but it’s not my cup of tea.

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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Oops, James. You missed Kent’s first post:

“The J settings will vary depending upon the line measure…”

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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“(Heck, even among Carter’s fonts, Miller and Galliard have it, but Fenway does not.)”

As far as I know, Font Bureau’s in-house method checks every
possible lower-lowercase, upper-uppercase, and upper-lowercase
pair for kerning.

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Isn’t an em-space the standard indent for a new paragraph in
“classic” typography?

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Chorus goes something like: “A town called Alice, ooh ooh yea-eah”
(with lots of guitars and a poppy beat).

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Allright allright, I misheard… If our lead singer knew
about this, he’d fire me on the spot! Misquoting The Jam…
argh!

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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Nah, I’ll stick to what I do best and provide the poppy beat
(and maybe some “oo-oo-oohs”)

Patricia Fabricant's picture
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 - 9:40am
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I can't say I've read every word of this LOOOONNNNNNGGG thread (and I can't figure out how it jumped to the top of the forum when the last post was over 2 years old but I will add that I have three H&J settings in Quark, tight, normal and loose. I find that depending on the typeface and its own defaults this is useful. Also it's a good way to either pick up a straggling word at the end of a paragraph (often mistakenly called a widow) or conversely to spread the paragraph out to fill out the last line.

TIght: min 70%, Opt. 85%, Max 100%
Regular: Min 75% Opt 100% Max 120%
Loose: Min 85%, Opt 105%, Max 125%

In all cases smallest word 5, minimum before hyph 3, min after 3, 2 hyphens in a row.

Paul B. Cutler's picture
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Joined: 15 May 2005 - 11:40am
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How about someone posting a screen shot or the settings that you use in InDesign?

I would love that…

peace

Patricia Fabricant's picture
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 - 9:40am
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I'm still using their defaults as I'm relatively new to InDy. I'd also appreciate some guidance on this from people who are more familiar with the program. I also can't figure out kerning/tracking and why adobe does in increments of 10 what Quark more sensibly does in increments of 1.

Tim Daly's picture
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Joined: 11 Sep 2003 - 9:04am
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>I can’t figure out how it jumped to the top of the forum when the last post was over 2 years old

Typophile got spammed and somebody has dragged the perpetrator out and killed him (or at least removed his posts)
Thank you anonymous moderator

>I also can’t figure out kerning/tracking and why adobe does in increments of 10 what Quark more sensibly does in increments of 1.

Illustrator (and presumably InD) uses 1/1000 em units while Quark uses 1/200 em and 1/20 em units

Tim

Yves Peters's picture
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Joined: 7 Nov 2002 - 11:00am
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> (...) and I can’t figure out how it jumped to the top of the forum when the last post was over 2 years old

Spammer hit us and revived a bunch of really old posts in the process.