Origin of blackletter use in gang tattoos

Bald Condensed
19.Feb.2008 4.40pm
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Hi everyone,

I’m preparing a talk on typeface selection which includes a section about cultural significance of type. There is a missing link though. I know that the use of blackletter on rap album covers stems from the gang tattoos, but how/why did blackletter become the preferred type style for those tattoos?



fontplayer
19.Feb.2008 5.03pm
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I’ll bet it ties into the use of blackletter in Mexico, and then transferring to barrios. Then spreading in prisons as the gang members did time (sometimes on purpose I’m told, because it was a badge of honor to do time)

And the blackletter in Mexico came from German immigrants that also brought Polkas, accordians, oom-pah bands, and the making a decent beer with them.
; )


Bald Condensed
19.Feb.2008 5.11pm
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Interesting theory. Can anybody back this up?


Eben Sorkin
19.Feb.2008 5.41pm
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You have probably read these but if not:

www.typophile.com/node/17496
www.typophile.com/node/28919
www.typophile.com/node/9921

I have never heard it suggested but I think that it’s a string ( or web ) of mental associations with blackletter where each new association being only vaguely aware of being influenced by the previous one.

I am pretty sure that nobody has gone beyond speculation with each jump.

For Rap & LA culture I think you have a convergence of Heavy Metal music’s use of it to signal “Tough/Hard” with a Mexican use which is Neighborhood/Street oriented. Heavy Metal comes to it from it’s interest in gothic and medieval and Tolkein/fantasy imagery.


William Berkson
19.Feb.2008 5.43pm
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Yves, originally hip-hop and early rap, which originated in the Bronx, New York City, was not associated with gangs. It had three elements: graffiti, break dancing, and rap music

There seems to be a definitive documentary on early hip-hop graffiti, called Style Wars. That should tell you what you want to know. You can order it through the link. My memory is the styles of this early graphitti were not black letter, but I may well be wrong.

The ’gangster rap’, which I believe started in LA, is a later development. It is important not to confuse hip hop with ganster rap, because the spirit is so different.

On gangster rap, there may well be an influence of hispanic gangs, but I suspect that also
Gerald Huerta’s AC/DC logo was an influence. He writes about it on this Typophile thread. That spawned a whole style for heavy metal, which I think predates the gangster rap albums and may have influenced them.

I short, I don’t know the answer to your question, but these links might help put you on the right track.


jupiterboy
19.Feb.2008 5.50pm
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If there is a connection to Mexican culture, the origin would look to be Catholic.


James Puckett
19.Feb.2008 6.28pm
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If there is a connection to Mexican culture, the origin would look to be Catholic.

After the conquer of Mesoamerica the first printing presses set up in Mexico used blackletter type and blackletter has been a big part of the culture ever since.

The book Mexican Blackletter has a little information on this digging into various histories of alphabets and letting will turn up much more. The question of whether American gangs picked it up on their own or appropriated it from Mexican gangs doesn’t seem to be answered yet.


jupiterboy
19.Feb.2008 6.40pm
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Well they certainly appropriated the saints and made that aspect their own on many levels. I suspect the typography was part and parcel.

You can bet the prison system was the petri dish.


sii
19.Feb.2008 7.02pm
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100 pesos says this guy knows the back story... http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/lars_krutak.htm

My guess is that during the period when gang tats became popular amongst African American gang members the resident tattoo artists in Southern Cal were Hispanic or had been primarily serving the Hispanic community – where blackletter was the predominant letterform.


James Puckett
19.Feb.2008 8.14pm
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Well they certainly appropriated the saints and made that aspect their own on many levels.

Or they just picked it up in school. Mexican ghettos aren’t the only ones with Catholic schools—almost a quarter of Americans grow up with those saints.

If anyone is bold enough to engage the body mod/tattoo community, it probably wouldn’t be too hard to find people in California, Texas, or Florida who could chart the history. I wouldn’t be surprised if various state and Federal police and prison wardens know all this, and have decades of photos to back it all up.


fontplayer
19.Feb.2008 8.21pm
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I have a friend that was in a hispanic gang in Hawthorne in the 60s, and he has a sort of home-made newsprint publication put out by someone that showed RIP drawings for their dead friends done in blackletter.


Paul Cutler
19.Feb.2008 8.31pm
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Think oom-pah.

pbc


fontplayer
19.Feb.2008 9.09pm
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One interesting thing about Mexican Oom-pah bands (called ’banda’ or ’tambora’ at some point-popular in north Mexico) is that they often seem to never have heard of dynamics, with everyone blowing for all they are worth, often to the point of being unable to control intonation. It takes some getting used to.


Quincunx
20.Feb.2008 4.46am
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Might it also have to do with that blackletters don’t have as many curves as roman letterforms? Eventhough blackletter forms can be quite complex, I can imagine that the shapes they are made out of are easier to tatoo than lets say a regular typeface.


Jens Kutilek
20.Feb.2008 5.45am
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One interesting thing about Mexican Oom-pah bands is that they often seem to never have heard of dynamics

There’s an old (german?) joke about guitarist asking the drummer to use more dynamics, who responds “What do you mean, ’dynamics’? I can’t play any louder!”

Might it also have to do with that blackletters don’t have as many curves as roman letterforms?

True for the lowercase, but not so much for the uppercase blackletter forms, which are often used exclusively in tattoos.

Jens


Ch
20.Feb.2008 6.48am
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the exact “how” may be vague, but the “why” seems obvious: for nazis and gangs the style connotes an ancient or deeply rooted authority, much as medieval typography itself must have seemed to the common illiterate. the presumed status of a coded complexity just outside our reach.

the meeting of catholic and nazi typographic associations provides an irresistible style for co-opting by the underground (disenfranchised) power system.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 7.04am
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^ Both religion and gangs are highly invested in initiation rights, which usually deal symbolically with death it seems.

I’m a little skeptical about the German connection simply because (and I’m no historian) the Spanish were in Central America well before the Germans settled in Texas. Also, if you skip over the border into NM you find nothing but hatred for the German influenced Tejano music, yet the black letter, appropriated saints, and candle shop culture cut across state borders.


Bald Condensed
20.Feb.2008 7.04am
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Golden thread everyone, thanks so much.

> Yves, originally hip-hop and early rap, which originated in the Bronx, New York City, was not associated with gangs. It had three elements: graffiti, break dancing, and rap music.

Yeah, I knew that — I was a breakdancer in my days. ;^) Thanks for the documentary and the tips.

My point in the presentation is that mainstream hip hop and R&B music picked up blackletter use via the gangsta rap sub-culture. So although they’ve got little to do with actual gangsta rap, both music genres use its specific typography.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 7.10am
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NWA used Mistral. What are your sources for the earliest use? Looking around I don’t see much blackletter in the early work.


Bald Condensed
20.Feb.2008 7.52am
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No, it’s a pretty recent trend.


jselig
20.Feb.2008 7.56am
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If you’re looking into blackletter as tattoo art you’re probably going to want to dig into the tattoo development side quite a lot as well. I suspect style and development of tattoo genres/phases influenced the lettering artists use. For instance, tattooing around the time of WWII lettering was a more open style, these days a lot of lettering is script or blackletter. A good example of the latter, and someone who might be able to provide insight are tattooists like Mr Cartoon and Maxx242.

I’d also suggest contacting the editor of International Tattoo Art, and going to BMEzine. You might get some more answers there as well.


Ch
20.Feb.2008 7.59am
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jupiterboy may have a point questioning the german influence but i suspect it’s there, indirectly, thru the heavy metal connection.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 8.08am
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And possibly the root—Hawkwind


Jens Kutilek
20.Feb.2008 8.11am
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Oh, of course somebody had to come up with nazi comparisons in a thread about Mexico and blackletter, with Hitler being alive and well in South America and all ... ;)

Ch: the “why” seems obvious: for nazis and gangs the style connotes an ancient or deeply rooted authority, much as medieval typography itself must have seemed to the common illiterate.

“medieval” is a very broad term, wasn’t it Martin Luther who printed the Bible in blackletter and thus the people’s typeface, opposed to the a bit more authoritarian catholics using Latin set in Antiqua?

And for the nazis, I don’t think they used blackletter (before they banned it, but let’s not go through all that again) because it spoke of authority but more due to its “völkisch” rustical character - if they had to have any reason at all to use it, other than it being the most widely used typeface style in Germany at the time.

Jens


Bald Condensed
20.Feb.2008 8.20am
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Thanks for that last bit, Jens, I can use that. :^)


Ch
20.Feb.2008 8.21am
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law


William Berkson
20.Feb.2008 8.23am
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If it’s recent, then my bet would be that it all traces back to Gerald Heurta’s AC/DC logo; that’s an iconic work that has just has stuck in everyone’s head, and influenced legions of logos that emulated the look. So this might be the case of a consummate pro influencing the streets, rather than the other way around.


Ch
20.Feb.2008 8.25am
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my point was the perceived authoritarian nature of the script among its appropriators thru association (correct or not), not the actuality of historical authoritarian usage.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 8.28am
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http://www.graphics.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=4...

Spanish Invade—1500s

Germans Settlers—1830s

Hawkwind—1970

ACDC (Let there be Rock)—1975


Eben Sorkin
20.Feb.2008 8.28am
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Yes, there is attribute such as “authority” essential to blackletter. All of that is imposed. It doesn’t mean that these associations are not culturally active for a particular use. Just that they shift. That’s the funny thing about blackletter. It pops up intermittently. And that allows it’s meaning to be reinvented.

That Hawkwind image is super-fab! It looks a bit like an album cover for the band Yes although I bet it pre-dates those. How old is it?


Ch
20.Feb.2008 8.36am
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excellent link, jupiterboy. i concede the german influence is indirect at best, possibly thru heavy metal logos.

perhaps it functioned as a sort of catalyst toward defiant identity mongering, or not at all. the hispanic catholic tradition seems to be the obvious thread.

@baldcondensed: will you share your talk with us ?


jselig
20.Feb.2008 8.37am
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There’s also a photographer, whose name i can’t recall right now, but he documents gangs, he might know a bit of the history. His stuff is largely b/w, and had a lot of neo-nazi, gang and cuban boxing imagery.


Eben Sorkin
20.Feb.2008 8.37am
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I had been thinking that the hawkwind was 1920’s. Except for the landscape... I bet a romantic cartoon from the 1920 could have had blackletter title.

What about Motörhead?

Does it’s use of blackletter pre-date Hawkwind’s?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/64/Motorhead.jpg/150px-...


Eben Sorkin
20.Feb.2008 8.38am
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I think Motörhead’s use predates ACDC’s BTW.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 8.48am
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All depends I guess. The Germans kids in the ’60s really took to VU rather than Blues music. From that hot bed of rebellion against the recent past contemporary electronic, punk, and I would suggest metal were born. Most of it would be classified as prog. I could make a pretty good case that Amon Düül II, with the release of Yeti, was the proto metal band. Can the proto electronic. Hawkwind follows closely in that metal/prog. tradition. A good survey of this rediscovered music is Julian Cope’s Krautrock Sampler.

Back to Mexican Blackletter, I bet the real thread is in Santería and the syncretic appropriation of Catholicism.


Eben Sorkin
20.Feb.2008 10.43am
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Back to Mexican Blackletter, I bet the real thread is in Santería and the syncretic appropriation of Catholicism.

I don’t think so so much. What has been impressed on me by a variety of sources is that Mexican blackletter is the opposite of special/underground/secret/dark - it’s mainstream. And has been for a long time. Hence ice cream signs in Blackletter.

As for Metal beginning with Amon Duul - certainly the timing is valid. But Deep Purple Led Zepplin and Black Sabbath all come in right about there too 1967,8 9.

I am not seeing Amon Düül or anybody else in blackletter though. I may be wrong, but the earliest use I have found so far is Motorhead.


Ch
20.Feb.2008 10.53am
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from a fascinating article in wikipedia:

In 1968, the sound that would become known as heavy metal began to coalesce. That January, the San Francisco band Blue Cheer released a cover of Eddie Cochran’s classic “Summertime Blues,” from their debut album Vincebus Eruptum, that many consider the first true heavy metal recording.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music#History


William Berkson
20.Feb.2008 11.13am
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>earliest use I have found so far is Motorhead.

In the thread linked above Gerald Huerta says he used blackletter on an album cover for Blue Oyster Cult which appeared in early 1975, when Motorhead was just being formed. That experience—where he appears on the back cover!—inspired him to return to that style for the AC/DC album, he says.


Hiroshige
20.Feb.2008 11.22am
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Fascinating thread!

I think the choice of blackletter as the preferred type style for tattoos and tattoo artist has very little to do with antiquity, reglion, culture, tradition or otherwise. I think deep down what appeals to the nature of those that chose blackletter for a tattoo are the strong and weak elements of the letter form itself. They graphically impart to the user a strong sense of community. Plus, elements of the letter offer to the tattoo artist and user alike, the opportunity to re-state the letter form as an indiviual statement.

Test case - present two type choices to a hundred people in the 15-25 age group (group dynamic male and female). One choice sans serif, and the other choice blackletter. And ask each person why they chose one over the other. It would be cool if you could do this study in some major cities on a global scale.

My bet is that across all cultures, forget about just the gangs, my bet is that blackletter will be chosen over sans serif because of its letter form elements and how those elements relate to each other within each letter shape.

Descriptive words that superceed stuff like tradition, religion, and culture - are words like ’elegant’ and ’style’. Those words appeal to us all equally - regardless of religion, culture, tradition etc., etc... And that imho is what reaches us from the blackletter.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 11.50am
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I don’t think so so much. What has been impressed on me by a variety of sources is that Mexican blackletter is the opposite of special/underground/secret/dark - it’s mainstream. And has been for a long time. Hence ice cream signs in Blackletter.

Maybe I was not very clear, but I think we are saying the same thing—that the Spanish Catholics brought in a new culture and that new culture combined with the existing traditions. Special and mainstream are not opposed in my mind, and Santería is a folk expression of the power of the introduction of western religion combined with healer/shaman traditions that existed before the Spanish. In my neighborhood people go to church but also the candle shop. I don’t see much dark or underground about this at all. I see these non-sanctioned religious expressions on almost every porch on my street. It is just another manifestation of some cosmic wish fulfillment.

Blue Cheer is the official line ala Rolling Stone, but to my ear they are heavy, but also blues influenced—I don’t completely buy it. Motorhead formed in 1975? That Hawkwind record in from 1970.

Amon Düül II had that heavy, plodding, sludgy gate—along with an experimentalism and anger, and a hot female singer, and…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pcla5zyZfA

Odd video assemblage but the music is there.


Ch
20.Feb.2008 12.05pm
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@hiroshige : i don’t see how one can possibly divorce formal aspects from popular associations. as an academic exercise perhaps, but not in the real world.

@jupiterboy : i don’t think it’s about blue cheer as much as it’s about ’68 - ’69
as the beginning of the sound. i can’t wait to seriously research this. i must know.

and i think the blues influence is vital (led zep) - in fact it distinguishes the metal direction from prog.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 12.14pm
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You’re right. Those blues redo songs of Zep were never my favorite—my bias shows through.


Ch
20.Feb.2008 12.16pm
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and just out of curiousity: how many typophiles have tattoos ?


Bald Condensed
20.Feb.2008 12.24pm
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We had a thread about Typophile tattoos before. There are a couple of links in there, but very few images.


Bald Condensed
20.Feb.2008 12.31pm
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Chris, Godwin’s Law doesn’t really apply here because the mention in this thread is relevant and legitimate, and is not used to inflame. Furthermore — I left out that part because I already have that information — I’m indeed talking about the shift in cultural perception in my presentation, starting off with the Nazi/right wing connotation of blackletter.


Ch
20.Feb.2008 12.52pm
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right about godwin’s law - i just get a chuckle out of it.

but i repeat my question: would you be willing to share your talk with typophile ? it’s been a scintillating read so far !


brokenletters
20.Feb.2008 12.58pm
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I agree somewhat with what Hiroshige is saying. The reason that blackletter was chosen originally was for its beauty and decorative forms.

I’m pretty sure there are other threads about this, but Nazi’s had there own blackletter that was a mix of fractur and sans-serif.

Nobody is mentioning the fact that there are Aryan gangs in prison, and perhaps blackletter was introduced into the prison-system and therefore underground culture that way.

In my mind blackletter has come to represent many counter-cultures because it has a lot of power built in to its forms. It is always fun to use something that the mainstream culture has used for “good” and subvert it for your own use.


david hamuel
20.Feb.2008 1.06pm
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> Written on the Body....

By Professor Jane Caplan — University of Oxford


Eben Sorkin
20.Feb.2008 1.08pm
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James, I see now. Quite right. What I am not sure about is the Hawkwind sound. I mean - that looks glam to me aesthetically speaking. I need to fallow that up. The other thing is for all I know there is some pop record in the 60s that uses blackletter...
William thanks for the reminder about the BOC/ACDC stuff.


Jens Kutilek
20.Feb.2008 1.34pm
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eliason
20.Feb.2008 1.54pm
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Looks like the 1972 album Black Widow III by Black Widow, an English group, used all-cap (yuck) blackletter on the cover. That predates ACDC, Motorhead, and Blue Oyster Cult (but not Elvis).

[image from here.]


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 2.04pm
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on Hawkwind

You probably know the story, Dave Brock, the bands one constant over all these years forms Hawkwind in the late 60’s, a top 3 single in the form of Silver Machine follows in 1972, the vocalist on that particular ditty being non other than Motorhead’s main man, Lemmy, who a couple of years later manages to get himself busted on the US - Canadian border which in turn leads to his sacking!


Eben Sorkin
20.Feb.2008 2.09pm
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Nice! The Elvis example is really weird. It looks so heavy to me now. I am sure it just looked churchy/liturgical at the time.

I think that in the UK & East coast of the US at the turn of the previous century there was a formula of Blackletter=Title. I can’t prove it. But that is my sense. Probably that cam from Diplomas & Certificates.

Actually... the Diploma Certificate thing probably plays a role in the tattoo use. In all three the Blackletter has the role of a sort of “super-label”.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 2.17pm
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More goodness. IDK if this is actually black letter, but aesthetic is there.

from here


eliason
20.Feb.2008 2.31pm
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From 1974:


Eben Sorkin
20.Feb.2008 2.33pm
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That Hawkwind story is pretty amazing. I finally heard Silver Machine... I think you have it now. Hands down. Hawkwind is the seed.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 2.48pm
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That song makes me want roller skates, for realz.


eliason
20.Feb.2008 3.35pm
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IDK if this is actually black letter

The lettering looks more like Chevrolet than Volkswagen to me.


jupiterboy
20.Feb.2008 3.51pm
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I know what you mean, but those Ws…

plus I’m thinking about what František Štorm says about Teuton, which could be an interesting addition to this thread.


Bald Condensed
21.Feb.2008 1.10am
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> but i repeat my question: would you be willing to share your talk with typophile ? it’s been a scintillating read so far !

Oh, don’t make too much of it. It is an introductory presentation aimed at students, and this topic is merely one of a few examples in one of the many topics.

It might end up as an article on Unzipped though.


Richard Hards
21.Feb.2008 2.06am
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Craig wrote: From 1974:
Captain Lockheed and the Starfighters was by Bob Calvert who was in Hawkwind, so there’s a connection.

Great fun, well it certainly was 30 years ago ;)


Hiroshige
21.Feb.2008 9.00am
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Ch> i don’t see how one can possibly divorce formal aspects from popular associations. as an academic exercise perhaps, but not in the real world.

It is because the letter form has personal attributes ( ie. script) and has very strong attributes, that is why it is a popular type of choice throughout the body art community.

You should really get more. Go talk with the owners of tattoo shops. In Ottawa, places like Planet Ink (where I’ve been seen once or twice), will tell you that it is because of it’s attributes blackletter is popular (and too a lesser extent some cursive faces). And btw, the reverse is also true. Monoweight sans serif is not popular. It is not popular because it is seen as being - plain.

These are very cool words coming from different societies and cultures. Words like ’style’ and ’plain’ will always transcend pop culture. Blackletter is as hip today and the century to come, as it was during the last century and the century before that (etc.).

And the more ’exposure’ it gets - the more appreciated it will become as a modern artistic statement with a long rich history.


jupiterboy
21.Feb.2008 9.14am
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Here’s a working hypothesis. Psych picks up Uncial forms to get that earthy, fancy, historic vibe and as the heavier psych bands refine and reduce black letter replaces the uncial trend.

Case One—Small Faces (1967)

Case Two—Pesky Gee (1968—quickly evolves into Black Widow mentioned above)

Case Three—Black Sabbath (1970)

It appears the desire to look fancy and old gave way to fancy, old, and—as Nathan Explosion would say—brutal.


Eben Sorkin
21.Feb.2008 9.45am
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Neil, the notion that Blackletter inherently has certain associations built in because of the way it looks is a mistake. I agree that Blackletter invokes strong feeling & Associations. That is undeniable. But the reality is that these are imposed on it by us. What I can agree with is that Blackletter continues to feel very distinctive in our Roman & Sans dominated culture.


paul d hunt
21.Feb.2008 9.57am
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i think that the whole music bent might be a red herring if you’re looking for origins. i think tracing the history of black letter tattoos in America is the key and i’m guessing that Dennis is probably right that the Mexican affinity for black letter has greatly affected this trend.


jupiterboy
21.Feb.2008 10.18am
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Yes. We are way off track on the music. The thread has devolved into a search for the first use of black letter on a heavy rock oriented record. I’ve been looking at the early gangsta rap for a first instance and I’m not coming up with much.


Hiroshige
21.Feb.2008 10.51am
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Eban>Neil, the notion that Blackletter inherently has certain associations built in because of the way it looks is a mistake.

You are wrong ...sorry.

It is precisely because of how the elements (weak and strong) with a blackletter relate to one another is what provokes a response from deep within us, mexicans, germans alike ...all of us. And that my friend is called ...’good design’.

Blackletter will never seem ’flat’ or ’plain’, and from what I know of the great people of Mexico - they’re anything but ’plain’. The same can be said of those who participate in the body art community. And it was a natural extension for gangs to relate to blackletter.

Good design will always stand the test of time.


Eben Sorkin
21.Feb.2008 11.37am
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I understand that you feel that way. I am not saying how you feel is invalid. Quite he opposite! But it is a cultural construct. Another culture might feel quite differently and draw completely different associations deep or otherwise. And they do. You can feel something without it being “essential”. The idea that what you feel about type or art is essential and eternal is just nonsense. That doesn’t make it feel less. It just means you are not the measure of all things. Is that sooo terrible? Insisting otherwise is like insisting that the universe revolves around you, or the earth, or the sun. It just ain’t so. Have a little humility!

Good design will always stand the test of time.

I am not sure how this relates. But I am sure that you can’t recognize what was best and will stand the test of time in the period in which you live. That takes ... time.


David Sudweeks
21.Feb.2008 12.45pm
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I lived in El Salvador for a couple years at the turn of the century. Blackletter has been in use in the artwork of the gangs for a long while; I can’t say how long. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that for latin cultures the connotations bound to blackletter have more to do with formality and quality in general—as opposed to the dimension of being dangerous, edgy, misunderstood, etc.
Funny this come up today—I’ve been drawing blackletter caps all morning.


Eben Sorkin
21.Feb.2008 2.02pm
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Care to show us your caps?


David Sudweeks
21.Feb.2008 2.05pm
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They’ll be on my type b’logue before too long. You can see sketches of my lowercase and figures there now.


eliason
21.Feb.2008 4.49pm
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I’ve been looking at the early gangsta rap for a first instance and I’m not coming up with much.

Me neither. But here’s 1992:


russellm
21.Feb.2008 5.12pm
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Going back to the Elvis cover above, I think that There has for a long time been a biblical association with blackletter - by the same people who call it Gothic and Old English and used it with great solemnity. I think that by extension, since many “bad-boy” heavy metal bands, use black magic and evil-uber-bad devil-worship themes, blackletter is the perfect choice beause of the irreverence, and like black magic and Satanism, it’s not really a departure from religion, it’s just a perversion, or at least, different take on it. You can’t reject something if you don’t first acknowledge it. Gangs - Biker gangs in particular, tend to use death’s heads, a devils and tombstones to represent their chosen place as outsiders, (... outlaws, 1%ers, etc.) The religious reference of blackletter lettering suggests what it is you are outside of. Biker gangs and street gangs aren’t the same thing, but there could easily be some cross pollination.

And, for all the rough and tough-guy swaggering of gang types, there is quite a bit of flat-out sappy sentimentally to tattoo art. Could be that the choice of lettering for - oh, I don’t know... “R.I.P. Mom” could influence the lettering chosen for gang related tattoos.

-=®=-


jupiterboy
21.Feb.2008 5.27pm
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and like black magic and Satanism, it’s not really a departure from religion, it’s just a perversion, or at least, different take on it

Yes. The “Satanists” tend to appear in direct proportion to the fundamentalist born-agains. Here in the Jethroplex we have more churches, more strip clubs and more pyramid schemes than anywhere else in the states. Maybe I’ll escape…


Eben Sorkin
21.Feb.2008 6.35pm
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“Jethroplex”! Wow. That’s a tasty one. Is that your or is it in common currency in TX?


eliason
21.Feb.2008 8.08pm
eliason's picture

I know what you mean, but those Ws…

Maybe so. Since Godwin’s already been invoked, I can say: they look closer to SS insignia than to blackletter.

plus I’m thinking about what František Štorm says about Teuton, which could be an interesting addition to this thread.

Thanks for that link - good stuff.


Ch
22.Feb.2008 6.04am
Ch's picture

hiroshige, i’m trying to understand : everything you attribute to the power of the blackletters is meaningful in three possible contexts : animal (pleasure), intellectual (aesthetix) and cultural (community). i doubt the 1st one, (depending on who actually made the cave paintings), i appreciate the 2nd but believe it to be incomplete in this case, and i have reliable experience with the 3rd.

>>You should really get more.

not sure what you meant there, but i generally agree. i’m adding to my left sleeve next month. i hang out with plenty of ink & inkers, i’m well inked, and i’ve not heard much tat talk, even among the art-schooled, about the formal aspects of the letterforms, let alone the word blackletter. but i’ve heard plenty about heritage, background, symbolism, deeply associational threads, the meaning of the personal choices.

academics aside, the power of the letters may be in the crazy fun of them, but very much also in all the associations they bring to play.

smiling emoticon


jupiterboy
22.Feb.2008 9.24am
jupiterboy's picture

“Jethroplex”! Wow. That’s a tasty one. Is that your or is it in common currency in TX?

Can’t take credit.


tina
22.Feb.2008 4.28pm
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See also Lisbon ATypI: François Chastanet: “Pixaçao letterforms – From European Antiquity to Brazilian shantytowns”.

Chastanet’s theory about the evolution of the special Sao Paolo graffity letter forms was based on influences by logos and album covers on 70/80ies rock band albums as well as black letter forms. He showed several charts and provided a theory about the formal development as well as lots of information about the general background.


Eben Sorkin
22.Feb.2008 4.35pm
Eben Sorkin's picture

Do you have a like to that?


akma
23.Feb.2008 4.54am
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Following up on russellim’s perspective, I had inferred that blackletter appeals not because of associations directly with authority or religion, but with the semi-chivalric ethos that many gangs cultivate. If that’s correct, “authority” and “religion” come along as ingredients to a worldview wherein the gang member is a knight; a bike is his horse; he is associated with a lady; loyalty to turf, group, and leader is the fundamental law; and one protects all these by violence as necessary.

No other design connotes that chivalric ethos, so far as I can recall early on a Saturday morning, as well as blackletter does — and blackletter subsequently signals “strength” and “danger” from its association (justified or not) with German authoritarianism, religious deviance, and other anti-bourgeois American phenomena.

Don’t ask how I came by this conclusion.


tina
23.Feb.2008 8.20am
tina's picture

hm, what about ornamental & playful, but edgy instead of smooth?

Or, the other way round: are there other typefaces that would match with these specifiations?


jupiterboy
4.Mar.2008 4.06pm
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It is said that shoe shine boys started it all, marking their places with daubers

fantastic


Wes Wong
4.Mar.2008 11.30pm
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As James Puckett mentions, there were printing presses in Mexico who stocked up on Blackletter. In short, it was said that this influenced the signpainters in Mexico to create signage in blackletter styles, eventually becoming a standard in headline fonts/hand lettering. It made its way up to the US as people migrated north.

Early Hip-Hop (early 70’s) actually did have gangs, most notable are the ’black spades’ which became the Zulu Nation. The activities included DJ’ing, Bboy’ing, MC’ing, & Writing/graffiti – all hobbies which predate “hip-hop”. Style Wars itself is actually not a documentary on ’early’ graffiti, as it was filmed when NYC graffiti was about 12 years old. Illegal graffiti actually has its origins decades before, which is where blackletter comes back into the picture.

Besides hobo graffiti (possibly dating back to WW1), Cholo graffiti is known as one of the first forms of illegal writing and was done in blackletter inspired forms. It is said that shoe shine boys started it all, marking their places with daubers, eventually transcending into gangs marking territory. Chaz Bojorquez, an original cholo style graffiti artist, mentions...

“This squarish, prestigious typeface was meant to present to the public a formal document, encouraging gang strength, and creating an aura of exclusivity.”

Chaz would probably be a great resource for you if you are into learning more about the cholo blackletter evolution. And here is the article I quoted him from.

An interesting thing to note is that current (non-gang) graffiti has seen a small trend of artists painting their versions of blackletter. Here are a few:


“Seventh Letter” by Eklips


“MINDS SEEK KNOWLEDGE, REVOKSABERRETNA” Detail of a wall. Lettering by Retna