The only thing I really liked was Erik’s part. As always he leveraged the documentary … at least a bit.

I loved it. :-)
But then again: I didn’t know many of the people featured/interviewed.
I’m looking forward to having time to watch the bonus DVD - I hope for much more of Erik Spiekermanns ramblings.
“In a sans serif design many try to make the letters look similar. Why? Why would they want the letters to look like each other!?”
Classic. :-D

They’re showing it in Seattle this week, and I’ve thought about going again. But I probably won’t. It’s weird, because now all of the trendy “designers” have caught on to the film and think they are hip and “into” fonts because they’ve seen the film.

Really, it’s quite sad. The movie was good, and the guys involved in it were good, but I don’t know if it’s a “second time on the big screen” movie. Maybe I’ll go just to network.

I thought it was fabulous, and bought the DVD, which is even better. Not only do you have very amusing additional interviews, but you can skip through all those shots of that damn Helvetica!

I loved it and also the DVD extras. Can’t get enough Spiekermann.

Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the video store... Helvetica blu-ray - http://www.helveticafilm.com/blog/2008/03/05/blu-wednesday/

Does the bluray edition come with enhanced explosions and chase scenes?

I don’t have a blu-ray player but I want to get one now because of that package design :)

I saw it at NWFF in Seattle this week, after seeing it on DVD. The audience seemed to be pretty into it, although I’d guess probably 50% were designers. The head of our local AIGA chapter even gave away a Helvetica poster to the first person who could produce something from their pocket with Helvetica on it — it took about 5 seconds for a winner to pop up.

My non-designer friend I saw it with liked the interviews, particularly with the more cantankerous designers like Massimo Vignelli and Erik Spiekermann, but felt the ending kind of fell apart. I’d have to agree with that. I was expecting something more poignant at the end, and it kind of fell flat. There was this build-up to show Helvetica as a microcosm of 20th century western thinking, but it never came full circle.

>Does the bluray edition come with enhanced explosions and chase scenes?

Think of the DVD as the PostScript Type 1 font and the bluray as the OpenType Pro version of the same font.

Coming soon: Helvetica in 3D!

72p, here are two other Typophile threads devoted to the film:

http://www.typophile.com/node/27479

http://www.typophile.com/node/35686

Thank you Ricardo, I new this couldn’t have been the first discussion but I could not find those you pointed out before.

If you guys haven’t seen the extras on the DVD make sure you don’t miss them!

I must admit I was expecting more of the documentary, brave and solid but to me it felt out-of-the-book and half way there. Although just seeing someone setting type on a large screen still turns me on, I demand more.

Hope you do not mind me disagreeing.

Finally, my Playstation 3 is justified!

For those who’ve missed this the HelvBlu just went on pre-sale and the Helvetishop - 125 clams for the special edition, 26 for the

http://www.helveticafilm.com/blog/2008/03/12/tangled-up-in-blu/

Hope you do not mind me disagreeing.

I agree with you, and that’s why I haven’t seen the film.

I liked the film much more than I expected that I would. After seeing it, I bought the DVD. I thought they did a decent job with it and would recommend anyone see it.

ChrisL

I agree with you, and that’s why I haven’t seen the film.

Right on, Nick. Do not see the film, ever. Keep the faith.

And Si, thanks for the Blu-ray order!

>And Si, thanks for the Blu-ray order!

Thank you Gary! I’ve got ’til May to save up for a player ;-)

Sii, you don’t have a Playstation 3 yet?

Seriously tho, we got one here and it’s fabulous—but all the games suck, which is good because the last thing I need with graduation two months away is video games.

Right on, Nick. Do not see the film, ever. Keep the faith.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm, Gary?
I also won’t be seeing No Country for Old Men, so you’re in good company :-)

>Sii, you don’t have a Playstation 3 yet?

No, got an XBox 360 for Xmas.

Too close? Love the film, though!

I also won’t be seeing No Country for Old Men, so you’re in good company :-)

True, both films are infamous for their hairstyles and excessive violence. I wanted to have a scene where Spiekermann is chased by a pit bull, but I couldn’t find one in Berlin...

Nick, FYI the film hangs a history of the last 50 years of graphic design on the peg of the 50th anniversary of Helvetica. And it is from the mouths of some of the leading participants, who are all pretty colorful and articulate characters. Also, many of them dislike or detest Helvetica.

Personally, I don’t see how you can love type and not really enjoy this film.

I wish they had interviewed James McAvoy. Because then my wife would watch it.

FYI the film hangs a history of the last 50 years of graphic design on the peg of the 50th anniversary of Helvetica

That’s exactly right - it winds up being much more a profile of the typography/graphic design field than of the typeface. I liked it for that (though I’d also have enjoyed the movie I expected it to be: a closer history of Helvetica’s design).

And I liked the music too.

I don’t see how you can love type and not really enjoy this film.

There’s just something about talking head documentaries on the big screen that makes me squirm.
And I imagine Helvetica itself has major screen time in the eponymous doc, so on the same principle I don’t go to Mel Gibson movies as I’d have to spend a lot of time watching close-ups of him...

Interesting how many Helvetica-film evangelists there are out there trying to convert the unbelievers. ;-)

I’m not sure why but after having seen it a couple of weeks ago @ school, i wasnt sure wether i like or loathed the font itself. I’m new to all of this, but i thought some opinions (good or bad) were a bit... snobbish.

>>the film hangs a history of the last 50 years of graphic design on the peg of the 50th anniversary of Helvetica

I would have liked to see more Univers vs. Helvetica, because they share the same birthday, and were equally important to the whole last 50 years debate...

I would like to have seen more on its place in history. Jonathon Hoefler headed a bit in that direction, but overall the movie made it seem as though it was this massive jump forward in modernism. Helvetica, to me, is just the perfect storm of being at the right time at the right place. Maybe that’s true of all art history, though?

nick: how do you so perfectly match the typophile background color ?

when i analyze it and create a digital rgb match, the result posts a bit off. see above.

1. Duplicate layer.
2. In top layer, select white area around type (and inside: non-contiguous) with magic wand.
3. Delete this selection
4. Delete background layer
5. Save as .png

BTW, Univetica is a 50/50 blend.

ahh - so the background is actually from typophile. duh.

yes your hybrid is swell; wish i’d had time to play.

it’s nerve wracking posting even humorous type-set asides to this group,
as the standards are impeccable! as they should be. bravo.

I’m going to watch it tonight, looking forward to it.
We can argue all the pros and cons of helvetica forever, however it is an important typeface that undoubtedly had a great impact on the design history, and for that reason I want to watch it. Well that and interviews with Erik Spiekermann :)

don’t miss the dvd extras, vic one. :-)

albriks, um yeah...

“Why these spirals you might ask? Well, first of all, the disc-like forms refer to the idea of formats: Blu-ray, vinyl, etc. Secondly, we liked the idea of Helvetica as a typeface spiralling out of control, or revolving almost like a planet, or a dark sun, or a universe in itself. We also thought that the spiral-like disc would refer to rays, radiation, etc., underlining the idea of Blu-ray.

But most of all, we really wanted to show the typeface in a sort of deconstructed type specimen. We thought it would be interesting to show the typeface, without actually showing it. As you see, the forms shown on the sleeve are not recognizable as letters, but you can still notice the shapes that are characteristic for Helvetica.” helveticafilm.com/blu.html

Yeah, ok pal. Not to mention the design is nothing more than just a spin - like the typeface itself?

...sigh

Neil, you missed the attribution... “Explains Experimental Jetest, in an email to Plexifilm:” - blame the designers, not the client! ;-)

Experimental Jetset says they hadn’t seen the Westinghouse brochure before this similarity was pointed out, post-release, and I believe them. They’re some of the most brilliant designers I’ve met. Let’s look at the full designs side by side (excuse my thumb):

I think they’re very different concepts.

-Gary

Sorry, can someone explain what this post is about?

Someone didn’t like the Helvetica film.......and?

Into the archives you go.

Gary,
I have a question about the Westinghouse Emergencies cover. Years ago when I was a young buck, I worked for Westinghose Corporate design Center in Pittsburgh. I know this piece from those days. I am trying to remember if it were done by Ken Hiebert, Peter Megert, or Eddy Byrd. We were all very Gerstner “Designing Programmes” conscious in those days so this is no surprise to see. My guess would be that it was a Hiebert design since he was a Basle guy. He was one of my professors and I worked for him part time in the mid-sixties. Peter was a Mueller-Brockmann apprentice and came to Westinghouse in 1968. He was my boss while I was there. I am having trouble remembering who actually designed this piece and hope you can come up with the correct name? Fred Troller is another possibility but I doubt if it was him.

ChrisL

I don’t think of it as plagiarism as its clearly not. I only posted it because it reminded me about it. It is, like Gary points out, different concepts, but perhaps rooted in a similar idea. The EJ version is also much better in my opinion if you look away from the BS statement, though. That might work on a normal client, but come on, do they really think designers would buy that crap?

edit: Certainly not suggesting the client in this case is stupid. They could’ve just spared themselves as I don’t think it was neccessary to say in order to sell the idea/design.

Christian, if you read on you’ll see a quote from Gary...

”...I nearly peed myself. That’s technical jargon for: I appreciated their wit and creativity.”

translation - “great packaging + wonderfully over-the-top BS explanation.”

Designers don’t need to “buy” the explanation, they just need to buy the product. ;-)

The Jetset have historically done statements explaining their process (see the website) and frankly, that’s what I like about their work. If you know them, have seen one of their exhibits/lectures, or have followed their designs over the last decade, you’ll get it. If not, you might not. I don’t think that text is BS, and I was the one who asked them to let us include it on the site. I like it.

And Chris, I don’t have any further info on that Westinghouse brochure, unfortunately. It’s great work, though.

In response to the comment that started this thread: we’ve all got our own opinions of what a documentary about type could or should be. Helvetica just happened to be mine. The film had its world premiere a year ago, and if someone had been reading the press and blogs about it for the past year and then just watched it now for the first time, who knows what they’d be expecting. And veteran designers will have different opinions than students, or non-designers, etc.

If anyone has their own ideas about how a film about type should be made, by all means pick up a camera and make it. And I’m not saying that as a challenge to criticism... I’m not saying “put up or shut up.” I just really want to see more films about design, as a viewer! That’s the reason I made Helvetica, to be able to watch the film I had in my head. Other people have different points of view, and I’d like to see those on the screen. Filmmaking should be a conversation, not a declaration, and in terms of design films there are still plenty more issues and people that we can focus on (no pun intended).

Cheers,

-Gary

Thanks, Gary! There have been so few (0) films in the area of typography that I was thrilled to see yours come out and hope more is coming from others as well. I know it it one of those vertical market things and hard to see reaching a broader market. Helvetica the typeface had the better chance of getting some viewing as a film for the very reason so many people get riled up about it. It made the fatal error of becoming extremely popular. Something like Perpetua might have its share of fans but this is a tiny bunch of type geeks, not a mass appeal. Dirty little scandals about folks like Gill might have some market bump but not because of the type. It would be about the sleeze factor.

ChrisL

Chris, were you speaking hypothetically, or referring to Looking for Mr Gill?

I was speaking hypothetically—I was not familiar with the link you posted. I was just trying to show an example of what kind of thing gets movies made more often than typography.

ChrisL

I loved the Helvetica film — it is really a joyous celebration of design.
I also love it because I’ve shown it to three friends and my partner, none of them designers, who all were riveted (wasn’t expecting that, I’ll admit) and now they understand quite a bit more about what design is and, consequently, what I do for a living.
As a result, they now will sometimes initiate conversations about typefaces... it’s not unusual for one of them to ask me out on the street if a poster is set in Helvetica or Univers... (!)

By the way, I think the Experimental Jetset package is both a better design *and* a stronger concept than the Westinghouse cover.

—Rob

As a closure to this wonderful conversation, impossible to imagine without the piece of film itself, I would like to thank you all for your always passionate and sincere comments.

I now believe, many posts after, that the part of me that viscerally rejected this documentary and that automatically and irrationally initiated this topic was the same one that received it as an unauthorized biography.
Never before I had felt so uncomfortable watching a piece of film, and It surely was because this time every single frame was a close-up of a very important part of me. Just like it no doubt was of many of you.

It was probably inappropriate to even start this topic in the first place and the question should have stayed as a personal reflection. But the number of comments, even if just motivated by the relevance of the typeface in question, have surely made the journey worth it and the evolution of the internal debate much more interesting.

Maybe I will even start a similar topic one day asking for opinions on a piece of film of my own. And hopefully somebody will try to define it as an “orange plastic olivetti typewriter roman holiday expresso”.

H

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