Book spreads suggestions

tonetics87
13.Mar.2008 6.07am
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Hey guys, first post ever. Anyway.
Here’s a sample of a book I’m doing for a graphic design history class, and was just wondering what you guys thought. I chose that format because there will be tons of illustrations throughout the book, and not much body copy. Is that a good proportion for the copy in relation to the page size?



pattyfab
13.Mar.2008 6.23am
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I think the gutter between the columns looks tight - as a result the two columns look jammed together in all that white space. Since you said this book is heavily illustrated it might be helpful to see how you intend to treat the pictures and captions as well.

And a few design comments:

1. Never start a column with the last line of a paragraph if you can avoid it.
2. Your paragraph indent is a little small - barely perceptible. Also the first paragraph under a head is usually not indented.
3. Try to align your columns if possible.
4. I might adjust the proportion of your chapter title to your chapter number. As it is now, CHAPTER 2 stands out more than “Alphabets”. It’s less important. I’d try to reverse that emphasis.
5. You have a mix of lining figs (in the text and main title) and osf (in the chapter number). I’d make those consistent - or spell out the numbers in the cn’s. Also be consistent within the body of the text about how you refer to the chapter numbers.

OK that’s all for now.


charles_e
13.Mar.2008 7.42am
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I’d echo Patty, and add:

2. . . . Also the first paragraph under a head is usually not indented.

Unless you also indent the head. But generally, a flush subhead is more serviceable; less true for chapter head, unless, as in your case, chapters don’t start a fresh page.

3. Try to align your columns if possible.

And if you can’t, one accepted conventing is that the inside columns are shorter, which would also solve the problem of not having the last line of the paragraph start a new column.

4. I might adjust the proportion of your chapter title to your chapter number. As it is now, CHAPTER 2 stands out more than “Alphabets”. It’s less important. I’d try to reverse that emphasis.

Right. Pure size is one way. Another way to lessen the impact of a larger element is to screen it. If, for example, you are using a large figure for the chapter number, and you want it to balance better with a smaller chapter title, you might screen it. The same would apply to a drop cap. Not to say you should, it is just one more tool.

5. You have a mix of lining figs (in the text and main title) and osf (in the chapter number). I’d make those consistent - or spell out the numbers in the cn’s. Also be consistent within the body of the text about how you refer to the chapter numbers.

Yes. Of course if you are using full-cap heads, I think it fine to mix old-style (aka *lowercase figures*) figures with lining (aka *uppercase figures*).

Finally, though it can be hard to tell without seeing the images, I do feel your top margin is a little too generous, given the foot margin. It is still a book.


James Puckett
13.Mar.2008 8.10am
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This feels a lot more like a design for a low-budget history journal than a book about design history. Where are your images? Why are chapters starting in the middle of a column instead of ending with a flourish and starting in a new spread? Why does it look like something built around convoluted theories about Renaissance book proportion instead of a real book?


Don McCahill
13.Mar.2008 8.39am
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> Why are chapters starting in the middle of a column instead of ending with a flourish and starting in a new spread?

I wouldn’t go there in this case. When chapters are this short, starting each on a new page will be expensive, and result in a lot of wasted space. There is something just wrong about chapters that don’t even fill a single page.

That said, a one column format with larger type might be the answer to both problems (why do young designers want to make everything so small? Don’t they know that they will be looking out of 50 year old eyes someday too?)

I like most of the other suggestions, however.


James Puckett
13.Mar.2008 8.59am
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There is something just wrong about chapters that don’t even fill a single page.

That’s what images are for.


pattyfab
13.Mar.2008 10.48am
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I was assuming that his chapters were run in like that because he hadn’t placed the art yet. I could be wrong. But if the text is to run like this, I wouldn’t give each section a simple head and remove the chapter number. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a book where the chapter titles start in the middle of the page, and certainly not more than one.


Ricardo Cordoba
13.Mar.2008 11.36am
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Hi. In your sample, I notice that you have a page number (folio) on the lefthand page, but none on the righthand page. Also, that one folio is kind of lost in the corner, not related in any way to the rest of the content on the page. You may want to try aligning the page numbers with one of the columns of text, or on the side margins. That way they will be easier to find, and might make the overall design stronger.


charles_e
13.Mar.2008 12.13pm
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I don’t think I’ve ever seen a book where the chapter titles start in the middle of the page, and certainly not more than one.

It happens, when you have, say, 25 chapters in 100 pages. When you go to a fresh page for a new chapter, you can figure on losing on average at least half a page between the combination of a chapter ending and a chapter beginning.

I have seen more than one chapter on a spread, but as you say, never more than one on a page. If they fall that fast, I’d go to a single column text. But of course, art placement will change all that. I imagine that if there is that little text and that much art, chapters might as well begin on a fresh page.

Actually, I assumed we weren’t being shown all the text. One other “rule” is that an image or table is placed within a section, i.e., usually before the next subhead, or in your case, before the next chapter. You could get yourself in a rather twisted position following that rule if the text is so short & you aren’t beginning a new chapter on a new page.


pattyfab
13.Mar.2008 12.35pm
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25 chapters in 100 page sounds very odd to me unless it’s experimental fiction or highly technical. It seems an strange way to organize a book.


charles_e
13.Mar.2008 1.35pm
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Patty,

These are typically old books, usually fiction. I seem to remember resetting a series of stories about the Knights of Labor (serialized newspaper stories, I think) that had over 50 chapters in less than 300 pages. The designer ran the chapters in.


tonetics87
13.Mar.2008 3.19pm
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Thanks guys for all your advice. As I read through your comments I realize my approach could be different.

>This feels a lot more like a design for a low-budget history journal than a book about design history.

Yes, exactly. It’s not something that I plan on producing or anything, just a simple project for my class. Although that doesn’t mean I’m not trying to do a good job on it.

>Why does it look like something built around convoluted theories about Renaissance book proportion instead of a real book?

Haha. You caught me. I’m relatively new to typography and proportions is something I still don’t very well understand. Which is one of the main reasons I came to you guys.

Sorry for confusing you guys, let me just give you a basic rundown of what I’m planning on doing and maybe you guys can suggest alternative methods.

These spreads will contain no images. The “chapters” can be better described as summaries. It will only introduce you to the core chapters, then the rest of the book layout (the ones that will contain images) are gonna be arranged differently. I wanted this to stand out from the rest of my book.


pattyfab
13.Mar.2008 6.05pm
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So this is like an extended outline? That’s not traditional, but OK. I think most of the comments here about the layout would still apply. But do show us what the body of the book will look like.

Also you left out the red rule for chapter 3.