Fret not! Users of the broad pen will rejoice at your words.

Majuscule/minuscule may sound a little pretentious when used for describing plain upper- and lowercase in printed running text.
But when it comes to non-typographic letters, be it lettering or writing, the terms UC and lc are just inappropriate, imho.

You could use ‘cap(ital)s’, too. More prevalent. I don’t know if there’s such a generally valid equivalent for the ‘small’ letters in English.
In German, there’s ‘die Versalie’ vs. ‘der Gemeine’ (‘the common’, latter mostly used in plural form). ‘Klein- und Großbuchstaben’ are the most widely used terms – but they’re not very adept. ;-)
F

Pdxuser, I use the word “minuscule” quite often to talk about lowercase letters. I don’t think I’ve ever used the word “majuscule,” though.

Florian, as far as I can recall, whenever I’d talk with people in German at Linotype about letters, we’d very often use “Versalien” for the caps, but “Klienbuchstaben” for the lowercase. I guess that is sort of mixing things up a bit. But maybe we just did that to enliven our day…

Oh dear, I’m afraid ‘die Gemeinen’ are in danger of extinction! Maybe that’s because ‘gemein’ is also ‘mean’?

I dont know what the “old typographic school” used,but in a everyday base here in Portugal we use them.
I dont use other them that (in Portuguese of course).

Antonio

i do

I do, just to enjoy the blank expression on client’s faces.
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Personal Art and Design Portal of Ivan Gulkov
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Are not these terms derived from French and Latin? Perhaps you could earn a little cred with French clients if you carefully worked them into conversation.

I do, especially when I want to come off as nerdy.

Chuck Bigelow used minuscule during his lecture at TypeCon in Buffalo and also at one of the Unicode conferences I attended. He says it with pronounced stress on the second syllable, which sounds a little odd to me since I usually stress the first syllable, but he may well be correct.

Hello there

I am not absolutely aware of any english-specific use of these words, but being french myself, I have to say that there is a huge difference between a “capitale” and a “majuscule”: a majuscule is the first capital letter of a word (at the beginning of a sentence, in a family name, etc) - and that’s it, period. To name every other capital letter in a sentence a majuscule is basically a mistake. Don’t worry though: 99,9 % of John Does out there are making this mistake. Only the die-hard typophiles know about that... And that’s a shame. In french typography, we also use the term “bas de casse” to describe a minuscule, for these were placed (as you know) at the bottom of the typographer’s furniture (the “casse”, “case” in english). The word “capitale” comes from the fact that these letters were placed at the top of the furniture, metaphorically called the “head”, in latin: “capitalis”.

This being said, I think that the use of “uppercase” and “lowercase” is strongly inappropriate since the disappearing of the case. As a typophile, I’d rather use “capital”, “majuscule” and “minuscule” when I speak (in english) with someone who has a minimum typographic knowledge.

Hope I brought some interesting info here,
dr

In portuguese these are THE words to describe what they are. In my ears, they don’t even sound half as strange as it would to english speakers.

Maísculas e minúsculas.

Of course they sound a lot better in portuguese.

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I’ve come across them now and then in English, but it is rare.

In Spanish, however, they are commonly used: mayúsculas y minúsculas.

Are not these terms derived from French and Latin?

Yes indeed, Christopher. According to my Mac’s dictionary:

In English at least, “capital” came from the “head” of the words, predating printing cases - OED cites a 14th-century Chaucer use of “lettres capitals.”

According to the OED, looks like within typography “capital” and “majuscule” are interchangeable, but within paleography capital letters are a subset of majuscule letters, which would also include large uncials.

Eliason: In English at least, “capital” came from the “head” of the words, predating printing cases - OED cites a 14th-century Chaucer use of “lettres capitals.”

> well I guess the typographic use comes from there. Good point.

It looks indeed that in english language, majuscule and capital are kind of the same; beware if you work with some french typophile though :-)

dr

Personally, I avoid using the terms because in most cases I can use “uppercase” and “lowercase” perfectly appropriately instead. Outside of our circle of geekiness, the average English-speaker has no clue what “majuscule” and “minuscule” mean.

(I’m all for education, but I’d sooner teach people something new rather than a near-synonym for words they already know.)

Cheers,

T

In italian ’maiuscolo’ e ’minuscolo’ are the normal word to describe uppercase (’alto’) and lowercase (’basso’).

Same in Portugal. “Maiúscula/o” and “Minúscula/o”. “Caixa alta” (uppercase) and “Caixa baixa” are terms used between designers, I believe. I get the frown look only when I use the last ones.

I have used majuscule and minuscule when teaching digital lettering.

They weren’t fonts, and usually the letters aren’t (inscriptional or stone-cut) capitals or a typographic lowercase.

I think the bigger confusion in most English-speakers’ minds is between lettering and typography. Few understand that the first is not necessarily the second.

I think the bigger confusion in most English-speakers’ minds is between lettering and typography.

/Applause. The terms “hand-drawn typography” and “vernacular typography” need to be excised from existence.

Between typography, calligraphy, paleography and general public consensus there is often different terminology. Scholarly people studying manuscripts and calligraphers probably use these terms most commonly. There is also the old “is it Blackletter, Old English, Gothic?

Aaah... “Vernacular typography”... I had trouble with this mean little one while I was writing my book.

dr

i use to say sometimes majuskeln and minuskeln just because it smells delicate
it is a pleasure to play with the language
(@berlin, germany)

The terms “hand-drawn typography” and “vernacular typography” need to be excised from existence.

Hand-drawn typography?

Craig

I think the melding of letter arts, from the calligraphic to the typographic (and everything in between), has created a bit of conflict in terminology.

As Graham, above, and many of my peers in the calligraphic field will attest, minuscule and majuscule are the accepted terms in our field (whether it is correct or not by French standards [talk to the British... their calligraphic books over the last century are replete with these references]). Caps and lowercase are used by us when the conversation turns to type (I would say those terms are antiquated but I don’t want to see what they come up with to replace them). As to the hand-drawn issue it is as futile as the argument about whether calligraphy is art or craft. In my work and the majority of others our type IS hand drawn, it has just made the transition from paper and ink to digital form.I often see the term hand drawn lettering on this site. That is redundant. I also see the term lettering applied to buildings, typefaces used in titling etc. That is sign painting or whatever it is called these days and the other is type, pure and simple.

As to your contention that hand drawn... I agree with you. I think it is, in essence, a useless and ill informed modifier. At some stage it may have been lettering but by the time it is in digital form it is type, as long as they are repeatable forms and not a scanned title.

I giggle at the term glyph. To me it has, and will always be, a carved form whether it is in stone or clay (from the Greek, glyphein, to carve). I will continue to create letters or characters in my fonts.

Not a scholar but this stuff bothers me.

Michael, One of those John Does

I giggle at the term glyph. To me it has, and will always be, a carved form whether it is in stone or clay (from the Greek, glyphein, to carve). I will continue to create letters or characters in my fonts.

Fair enough, but by the same token another might giggle at your use of “fonts” to describe something made with no melting in the process. :-)

My point in showing the Dwiggins example was to pose a counterargument to James’s contention that “hand-drawn typography” is a useless term. I think it’s potentially useful for describing hand-drawn illustrations that mimic typography, which is how my eyes see Dwiggins’s work. I think it’s an especially interesting case, because it reverses the usual type-designers-emulating-lettering process.

I never use those words.
As per Thomas, upper case and lower case—although I have been known to vary whether these are separate, alloneword, or hyphenated terms.

**

As for “hand drawn”, I aggree with James that “hand-drawn typography” is an oxymoron, but have to say that I hand draw all my glyphs.
But really, isn’t all drawing hand-drawing? So there’s a bit of redundancy there, as when people talk about “type fonts”, which is rather like talking about music tunes, road cars, or fruit bananas.

But really, isn’t all drawing hand-drawing?

If looking at an architect’s drawings of a building, I might distinguish between hand-drawn renderings and ones drawn with benefit of compasses, t-squares, triangles, etc.

Plus, there’s this.

Craig

The fact that you can haggle over the terms proves my point. Fully aware of the original meaning of font, thank you. I say party... those who want to sound cool say partay or hand-drawing!

I fully agree Nick and I think that is what I said, or at least meant to say, but I calligraph or letter my characters (inherent in this is the fact that the chosen tool infuses the character with the unique qualities of that tool... made in a minimum amount of passes). Not drawn as with a pencil, nothing wrong with that (different set of skills).

Michael

Although I never use them, they sure are fantastic words.

Sorry Craig

I was not directing that at you, you were not the genesis of the original statement, whatever it was that I honed in on. I guess I was responding in an all-encompassing way at the present misuse and confusion of terms in converging fields.

The Dwiggins work looks to be lettering converted to print via photo engraving. Now whether it was drawn, lettered or divined I haven’t a clue. Search out Paul Shaw, he is quite the WAD expert.

Michael

Scholarly people studying manuscripts and calligraphers probably use these terms most commonly.

This is quite on point; in the manuscript study of biblical texts, the distinction between majuscules and minuscules plays an important role. And in our field, we commonly place the stress on the second syllable of of each word (with a schwa in the third syllable).