Another Rip-off foundry?

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Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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Bert Vanderveen's picture
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Joined: 13 Jun 2004 - 8:19am
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I am going to think some time about the answers I am going to give — what I do know now is that its is quite significant that these guys took down their site and cancelled their main selling venue after being confronted by the IP-owner. And I also think that being unaware of the ramifictions of stealing someones IP does not cut it nowadays — if you are connected to the web, you can find out what it’s all about.

More tomorrow re that other comment. (@Ricardo)

. . .
Bert Vanderveen BNO

Uli Stiehl's picture
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Joined: 1 Feb 2006 - 8:02am
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It does not surprise me that this Therese Brockie, who called me a nutcase in order to defend this Gasoligne outfit, is suddenly very silent.

Therese Brockie's picture
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Joined: 15 Sep 2008 - 4:35pm
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The post was removed, what else is there for me to say except thank you?

Vivio Russ's picture
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Joined: 28 Sep 2008 - 7:11am
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@ Stephen Coles: Veeko Wide looking like Kari ??????
Got a problem with your eyes??
I've never seen a type close to veeko...
Dani, maybe you could try to contact them directly... don't know their mail adress but you can try contact@... or info@... or such commun adress like that...

Vivio Russ's picture
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Joined: 28 Sep 2008 - 7:11am
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It's easy for me to make an overlay of two fonts of the same style and say: Oh my god! It's a rip!!!
Let me laught, overlay types likes Frutiger, Myriad, Museo sans, Amescote or Humanist 777 and you'll find them really close!! But they have never been considered as ripping...
Compare Fontella from canada type and Elite from DanXsolo...
Clarissa from paratype/typadelic and CK Tea Party from Scrapnfonts...

Ralph, in your first post you say that the person bought your font on myfonts and one month later Urqinoa was released, but if they're "criminals" like Uli and others said I think it's a little "bizarre" that they bought it... it only take few minutes to find your Logotypia pro for free on instant download on the net...

I'm new here but I got the feeling that most of members are more here to destroy some reputation and people :/
in this way I understand why they decided to stop selling fonts...

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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> I’ve never seen a type close to veeko...

Which is why I had to venture a bit further afield and try to find something that hopefully approaches the flavor of the image I see above.

Uli Stiehl's picture
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Joined: 1 Feb 2006 - 8:02am
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> if they’re “criminals” like Uli and others said

Vivio Russ:

I did not say that he who ran this Gasoligne outfit is a "criminal". Others in this thread used the word "criminals" as a misnomer, but not me. Forging fonts as such is no crime, whereas forging banknotes as such is a crime (at least most countries). Since typophilers have obviously never read any penal code, they think erroneously that he who is speaking of forgeries is necessarily speaking of crimes. But this is child-like thinking. It depends on what your forge, e.g. banknotes, cheques, signatures, paintings, fonts, etc. Fonts are no banknotes. Got it?

K Cerulean Pease's picture
Joined: 19 Oct 2003 - 5:03pm
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Uli, that's because "forgery" is the wrong word. You should have noticed by now that you're the only person who uses it this way.

Zara: "I advised him that if he wants to defend himself and has nothing to hide, he should consider participating here"
If he did, he'd just be going toe-to-toe with Uli. How could anything coherent come out of that?

Typography.Guru's picture
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Joined: 8 May 2003 - 2:39pm
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It’s easy for me to make an overlay of two fonts of the same style and say: Oh my god! It’s a rip!!!

If you use the digital data of those fonts, you violate the End User Licence Agreements. Again: that's(!) the problem discussed in this thread and I also made this very clear in my first post. It's not about stylistic similarities. It's about building and selling a new font based on the digital data of another font.


I’m new here but I got the feeling that most of members are more here to destroy some reputation and people :/
in this way I understand why they decided to stop selling fonts...

Please don't try to turn this whole story upside down. It almost sounds as I have put an honorable men out of business by making false accusation. The website of Gasoligne was closed immediately after I had written them an email about the case. This reaction can be only be understood as an confession of guilt. If my claims were unjustified, why should they react in such a way?
As I have previously said: I just needed to stop the selling of the Logotypia rip-off. I have no reason to tell anybody the name of the Gasoligne owner, nor am I interested in "destroying anyones reputation".
Uli might have a different approach in dealing with his "funny font forging industry", but that's a different story. Please don't lump us all together.

Vivio Russ's picture
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Joined: 28 Sep 2008 - 7:11am
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Hahaha...
So Why didn't you settled the problem with the owner just between you and him (and not on public place)?... I think you tried to put discredit on this foundry: even if they made a mistake creating a font close to your design, you said "if you are a typedesigner, please have a look at their current and future designs to check if one of your fonts was also ripped off"... It's a direct call to person likes Uli... also you wrote "This reaction can be only be understood as an confession of guilt" which is an easy shortcut for me, I hope you will never be in a jury ;)

Uli Stiehl's picture
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Joined: 1 Feb 2006 - 8:02am
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Vivio Russ:

>Hahaha...

Mr. Herrmann was exceedingly moderate in his reactions.

Vivio Russ's comments are utterly ridiculous. Since you are from Italy, why don't you defend Silvio Berlusconi. Instead of "font forgeries", you could defend his "election forgeries".

Vivio Russ's picture
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Joined: 28 Sep 2008 - 7:11am
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Wow!!! what an adult and intelligent answer :p

Typography.Guru's picture
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Joined: 8 May 2003 - 2:39pm
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Vivio,
take a look at your comments! You are excersising exactly the sort of public defamation which you are trying to criticize.
I was trying to respond to you as honest as possible, but you don't seem to be interested in my answers, as long as you cannot twist my words to support you opinion. On that account I am not going to continue this pointless discussion.

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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I am just curious Vivio.

You mentioned Flavour And Pooper Black. How would you classify their "relationship?"

I think this may be illuminating Ralf!

Michael

Vivio Russ's picture
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Joined: 28 Sep 2008 - 7:11am
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for me Flavour could easily just be a redraw of Pooper Black
http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/8959/poopflavwg5.jpg

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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Do you not see the differences in the caps and numbers? At what point does it depart from a redraw, or better yet - is it a rip or just another interpretation? And have you looked to see exactly what has changed in the lower case? I am just curious Vivio.

Michael

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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Thanks for the side by side. I wish you would have used the bolder weight ... it might have been more illuminating. But, as I said in an earlier post you have a keen eye!

Take a very close look at the lowercase l.

Michael

Uli Stiehl's picture
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Joined: 1 Feb 2006 - 8:02am
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"Uli, that’s because “forgery” is the wrong word. You should have noticed by now that you’re the only person who uses it this way."

Cerulean (Mr. Pease):

Mazzone uses the word "copyfraud" instead of "(copyright notice) forgery".

I suggest that you read his highly instructive 70-odd-page treatise about "copyfraud" published in this American law journal:

see http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=787244

I repeatedly said that fonts are non-copyrightable and that users who, by way of EULA, pay for "copyright" licences to non-copyrightable fonts must be considered utter dimwits who can be most easily taken for a ride.

In his treatise, Mazzone came to the conclusion that not only ordinary Americans, but even American law students are dimwitted to such extent that they can be tricked into believing that they have to pay for "copyright" licences to non-existing copyrights, e.g. even for the "privilege" to quote from the American constitution. Mazzone writes on page 1028:

"A stunning example: A pocket version of the Constitution popular among law students contains a copyright notice, along with the admonition that “[n]o part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means . . . without permission in writing from the publisher. Whatever the Constitution’s framers and ratifiers had in mind when they authorized Congress to create copyright law, they surely did not expect that somebody would one day claim a copyright in the Constitution itself."

Is America an asylum for dimwits?

darrel's picture
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Joined: 4 Feb 2003 - 6:03pm
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"Is America an asylum for dimwits?"

Yep. And our IP lawmakers and enforcers are a bastion of them.

Jason Campbell's picture
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Joined: 8 Oct 2005 - 11:52am
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“Is America an asylum for dimwits?”

not really an asylum, more like a greenhouse.

Jason C

PauloDurrantez's picture
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Joined: 2 Oct 2007 - 6:13am
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Edward Johnston and Eric Gill...

Chris Lozos's picture
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Joined: 25 Feb 2004 - 11:00am
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" more like a greenhouse."

perhaps that might be Whitehouse?

ChrisL

Ch's picture
Ch
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Joined: 4 Feb 2007 - 7:48pm
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could be the poorhouse.

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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America and Typophile - the inmates are running the asylum ;-) ah, an idea for next year's t-shirt compo.

André's picture
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Joined: 27 Feb 2008 - 2:10pm
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" could be the poorhouse. "

It appears that all is being lined up from the bottom.

koeiekat's picture
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Joined: 23 Feb 2003 - 8:46am
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@ Dani08: The Veeko is now sold by its designer, Florian Bambhout, at Bamboo Types: http://www.bambootypes.com/oxea_veeko.htm