Sheva, custom marks...

david h's picture

Sheva, custom marks... and other issues:

1.Geulah:
"Regarding the dagesh in the gimmel of geula, you might be right. Although you know, most dagesh is missing in modern Hebrew with nikkud, except for the beit, kaf, peh, and taf. The dagesh in other letters is merely grammatical."

I don't understand the last part. About the first part: not just right, let's see what your Rebbe said:

Unless, of course, you don't agree with the Rebbe.

gohebrew's picture

David,

Who is the Mateh Moshe?

This seems to be a clear souce for a gimmel degusha, a gimmel with a dagesh.

I found a few sources in the Amidah prayer, the Shmoneh-Esray, where Jews beseech G-d to deliver them from exile, and other places in the Jewish prayerbook.


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To which Rebbe are you referring? A rebbe simply means 'my teacher'. Don't you know that? King David even called his enemy "rebbe", just because he taught him something (Avot). The Lubavitcher Rebbe called everyone 'rebbe', except one person. He called him, "hahu eesh", "that guy" to avoid speaking "lashon hora", malicious speech.

Maybe, geulah has a gimmel with a dagesh, maybe not.

John, can you search your data base if the geulah ever appears in the Tanach?

david h's picture

Israel,

> geulah ever appears in the Tanach?
???

I'll save John the time. See Leviticus 25: 24, 31, 48.

> To which Rebbe are you referring?

You tell me. You have to know it; Very important work by the Rebbe!!!!

BTW, do you understand the Rebbe, the Hebrew?

gohebrew's picture

Rebbe in Hebrew is an acronym for three Hebrew letters, R -B - Y = Rosh Benei Yisroel - the head of the Jewish people.

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In the Talmud, the person called "Rebbe" was a very great person. He was so great that we didn't need to say his name.

Among Lubavitcher Chassidim, the Rebbe refers to the Lubavitcher Rebbe, of sacred memory. But in each generation, the Lubavitcher Chassidim referred to their rebbe as the "Rebbe".

As the seventh Lubavitcher Rebbe said about his predecessor and himself for a supporter of Lubavitch who no longer wanted to give money to Lubavitch, claiming that he knew the sixth Rebbe, but did not know this one, "Tell him, we're all the same person, but just in a different body."

Which work by the Rebbe do you refer? Yalkut Moshiach U'Geulah?

A "rebbe" in general refers to ones teacher, from the simple cheder teacher, to the esteemed rabbi who lectures in the advanced yeshiva.

> See Leviticus 25: 24, 31, 48

Wow, do you know the Tanach by heart? Are these examples of the word 'geulah' with a gimmel dagusha?

I don't have my Tanach here. Can you scan the verses please?

gohebrew's picture

I briefly reviewed David Kimchi' Hebrew Grammar by William Chomsky. I am studying it more seriously.

My first response to Dr. Chomsky's thorough presentation of Rabbi Kimchi's broad knowledge of classical Hebrew Grammar, is that it lacks a comprehensive analysis of its topics, and a systematic presentation.

Who is writing to?

Peers, who appreciate his subject matter and array of examples, do not need a paragraph overview or two and a definition of a rule of the Hebrew Grammar that those examples illustrate.

I am a student of Hebrew Grammar. Not a peer. I seek a short overview of each rule of Hebrew Grammar. I would gain increased knowledge from a comprehensive analysis of its topics, and a systematic presentation.

I hope the other books suggested on this topic are not as limited as this one.

gohebrew's picture

For example, why did I not see a simple statement about the gimmel when it appears first in a Hebrew word, then it has a dagesh, because the Gimmel is a Palatal, and when a Palatal begins a word, it has a dagesh?

This would be a simply stated rule.

Instead, David and I search for different examples in Tanach, or in rabbinical writings, to derive this simple matter.

John Hudson's picture

Israel, you may like Weingreen's A practical grammar for classical Hebrew, which is well structured and quite clear. Complex topics are followed by a summary, making it easy to check that you have understood the preceding explanations and examples. For example:

‘Dagesh Lene applies to the six letters בגדכפת and, when inserted in them, hardens them by changing the sound from spirant to momentary. Dagesh Lene occurs in these letters at the beginning of a syllable, provided no vowel immediately precedes.’

This still leaves some questions, but these too are clarified. For instance, if the preceding word ends in a vowel, will the gimel etc. at the beginning of the next work take dagesh or not?

david h's picture

Israel,

I don't understand the nature of the problem ( the book by Chomsky). But the main question is: did you read/study Kimchi? Because of you didn't study Kimchi how do you know what is wrong or right with Chomsky?

I think that I said that before. Don't look for How-to; read again the post by Bill about the kamats katan: with every rule there's a chain reaction!!! You can't just look for rules. You need & have to study everything: verb pattern groups, the verb system, the noun system, pronouns etc. etc. etc. etc.

That is why I don't understand: "Instead, David and I search for different examples in Tanach, or in rabbinical writings, to derive this simple matter."???

The main goal with 'your Rebbe' was to save me time + words. BTW, the Rebbe is Shneur Zalman of Liadi. And you didn't answer my question: do you understand the Rebbe, the Hebrew?

What is the name of the siddur (year, publisher)? There's a problem with this sample; that is why I like to see a scan.

-------

And, of course, Shana Tova!

gohebrew's picture

John and David,

Thank you for your advice and remarks. I think you, John, get the drift of what I complained about. David, you seemed to defend Dr. Chromsky by asserting that there is no simple rule, only chain reactions.

===

Many people believe mistakenly that the two-day High Holiday of Rosh Hashana is in a similar theme as of the other holidays in this season: remorse for past short-comings, and a firm resolve for a better future; blessing for a good and sweet year; a time to get closer to G-d; and happiness for the Torah.

Actually, Rosh Hashana stands apart, as it is not self-centered, and having to do mainly with us. Rather, the focus of Rosh Hashana is only upon G-d's role as king of the universe and every single living being in it.

In that way, Rosh Hashana is a universal holiday, which affects all humanity - perhaps, more than any other holiday (although many people point to Chanukah for its universal message of religious freedom).

The sealing of ones fate, so to speak, is about three weeks later, on Hoshana Raba. According to Chassidic understanding, based upon the teachings of Jewish mysticism, if one is not satisfied with the outxcome of G-d's judgement, one still has the opportunity to "turn over the cart" and earn remarkable blessings by dancing excitedly on Simchat Torah, as is the custom of Lubavitchers. We are never satisfied with whatever we get. :)

===

Ktiva vachatima tovs - may you be written and sealed for a good year!

gohebrew's picture

David,

1. According to the rule of Dagesh Lene pertaining to the six letters בגדכפת quoted by John, the word "G'alo", "[G-d redeemed [the Jewish nation]" preceded by the vowel "u" should not be with a dagesh.

John, you referred to some problems with this rule. What are they?

2. In my JTS English translation of Tanach, I don't see the word "Geula", redemption, but similar words. chazar kushia l'ducteh, the question returns. John, is 'Geulah' 'גאולה' as spelled, anywhere in Tanach? I don't think that I ever heard it in a quote.

3. The Rebbe, in Hebrew? I am unsure as to what you refer.

Rabbi Scheur Zalman of Liad, or the Alter Rebbe, the "old Rebbe", as Lubavitchers refer to him, or the Rav (as he is often called, because he composed a revised version of the Shulchan Orech, the Codes of Jewish Law), or the Baal HaTanya (as he is often called, because he composed a famous systematic work explaining the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov, composed many works in Hebrew. His most famous works are: a) Likutei Amarim/Tanya; b) Shulchan Orech; and c) Torah Ohr and Likutei Torah.

Are you referring to one of these?

If yes, I have studied them repeatedly in Hebrew.

His style is similar to the writings of Maimonides, in that he is both exceedingly clear, yet extremely concise, to the point "each letter he writes is weighed".

Like Rambam (Maimonides) in Mishnah Torah, Rabbi Scheur Zalman of Liady devotes much discussion and deliberation about the shapes of letters in a Torah scroll. Likewise, he was super attentive to the rules of Hebrew grammar.

John Hudson's picture

Israel, I believe David was asking is you understood what 'the Rebbe' (Shneur Zalman) has written 'in Hebrew' as quoted in the image included in David's first post in this discussion.

John Hudson's picture

Israel: 2. In my JTS English translation of Tanach, I don’t see the word “Geula”, redemption, but similar words. chazar kushia l’ducteh, the question returns. John, is ’Geulah’ ’גאולה’ as spelled, anywhere in Tanach? I don’t think that I ever heard it in a quote.

With the vav? I have not found any instances yet, but I do not have an easily searchable version of the text at the moment (my old Logos installation got corrupted). So far, I have only found -- as in the Leviticus passages cited by David above -- the form גאלה --, without the vav.

gohebrew's picture

John,

The quotation in Hebrew is attributed to two parties, the Shua"r, and the Mateh Moshe. Also, the style of the comment and its content is unlike those of Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liady.

David, what are you referring to?

Like David Kimchi, are all Davids so cryptic?

gohebrew's picture

Curiously, we know that Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liady is a direct descendant from the famed Maharal of Prague, Rabbi Judah Loeb, who traced his lineage to Rashi, Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki, who in turn traced his lineage to King David.

So, we see Davids (and descendants of David) are short and sweet, and to the point. To some, this is cryptic.

gohebrew's picture

John,

The database you have is with the nikkud and taam. Can't you search just the letters?

Even if you supported wild card searches, you would have to search five Unicode values, with three or less wild cards after each one, as you don't know which has a taam and a dagesh.

Is there anyway to search in this way?

In Logos, you would just search the letters?

You would think that in this day and age, searching in this way would be feasible.

gohebrew's picture

> [the dagesh] hardens them by changing the sound from spirant to momentary

A "spirant" sound is soft, smooth, and longer, while a dagesh sound is hard, abrupt, and shorter.

Is this what is meant by "momentary".

gohebrew's picture

> [the dagesh] hardens them by changing the sound from spirant to momentary

A "spirant" sound is soft, smooth, and longer, while a dagesh sound is hard, abrupt, and shorter.

Is this what is meant by "momentary". Is this correct?

Michel Boyer's picture

According the the morphix entry the word is witten גְּאֻלָּה; with a simple grep I got the following instances.

I searched with egrep and wild cards to get something close to גאולה and got nothing.

david h's picture

Israel,

> David, what are you referring to?

Shneur Zalman of Liadi — Siddur Rabbeinu Hazoken

Kehot:
"Compiled by Rabbi Levi Y. Raskin
Mark the 201st anniversary of the publication of the Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi`s Siddur with this special bicentennial edition. A well researched, definitive and encyclopedic edition that offers citations and explanations of the sources and reasoning, behind Rabbi Schneur Zalman`s rulings about halacha, prayer phraseology and pronunciation. For clarity, the notes appear beneath the text that they reference. This is a monumental work of useful scholarship befitting a glorious milestone in the history of Chabad-Lubavitch."

John Hudson's picture

Aside:

Curiously, we know that Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liady is a direct descendant from the famed Maharal of Prague, Rabbi Judah Loeb, who traced his lineage to Rashi, Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki, who in turn traced his lineage to King David.

I visited Rabbi Loeb's grave when I was in Prague. It was moving, as always in Jewish cemeteries, so see the stones laid upon the grave.

John Hudson's picture

Israel, as I said, my Logos installation is corrupted, so I don't have easy access to searching the whole text. I have my letters+marks sequence query data and other older searches, but can't at the moment conduct word searches. But the information that Michel provides matches what I have been able to find in my various print editions: no vav.

Michel Boyer's picture

> no vav

I found this "exception" if you want to call it that way

david h's picture

Israel,

> Like David Kimchi, are all Davids so cryptic?

Why Kimchi is so cryptic? Which chapter, section is so cryptic?

Guess what. Now I remember that there's one word (and only one word) geulah with vav: see Roth 4:7 (al-haGeulah)

gohebrew's picture

Michel,

Thank you for these five examples of the word, "גְּאֻלָּה", "redemption", each with a dagesh both in the gimmel and lamed.

This word, "גְּאֻלָּה" is not with a shuruk (with a vov), but with a kubutz under the aleph, and without a vov.

Hence, the correct way to represent "גאולה" with a vov, is to place a dagesh both in the gimmel and the lamed.

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When I originally quoted this term, גאולה, I really wan't referring to any point in Hebrew grammar, or to its typical Biblical usage. Rather, I was referring to itsusage in modern terms, as the end of גלות, the 2,000 year old exile of the Jewish people, known as the גולה, the diaspora. By inserting an aleph, א, into the word, גולה, between the gimmel and the vov, the results are: גאולה, redemption.

This was in continuation to my quotation from the book, "Letters of Light", which attributes Divine significance to the meaning of an aleph.

Our discussion was parenthetical.

Why is a vov included in the spelling of "גאולה", and not without a vov, like the Biblical spelling: "גְּאֻלָּה"?

One answer can be like David's pointing to the habit to drop the vov or yud in words spelled with nikkud, and their insertion when words are spelled without nikkud.

I would like to suggest that here too the reason of inserting the vov is because of a lofty reason.

The Biblical term, "גְּאֻלָּה", is different in its usage than "גאולה", which refers to end of "גלות", or the "גולה". A vov refers to the concept in Jewish mysticism of "hamshachah", a drawing down from Above to below, or how G-d illuminates this world.

If so, you might ask, isn't there also a vov in "גולה"?

The basic Chassidic belief from the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov is that even during this time of "גלות", exile, G-d is with us in an open and revealed way.

We say this in Psalm 23:4-:

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Chapter 23:4
...ki atah eemahdee... for You are with me...

Atah, You refers to G-d directly, His very essence;
eemahdee, are with me refers to an essential relationship.

This shows that G-d's presense is not normally hidden, but enjoins a person, even in times of trouble.

gohebrew's picture

John,

> I visited Rabbi Loeb’s grave when I was in Prague.

I was told that in World War II, when the Nazis were leveling Prague, many non-Jews gathered by Rabbi Loeb's gravesite, for there was a tradition among the non-Jews that in times of peril, they should collect by his grave, as Rabbi Loeb would protect them.

===

The oldest standing synagogue existed in Prague. I believe the Nazis destroyed it. It housed the body of the famed Golem, creatred by Rabbi Loeb, upstairs in the attic, among the shaimos, old books and manuscripts that contain G-d's holy name.

Once when the fifth Lubavitcher Rebbe, the Rebbe Reshab, was traveling, he took his only son, Rabbi Joseph Isaac, with him to that synagogue to pray. Rabbi Joseph Isaac was only a young boy then, and curious, he ascended the stairs to the attic to see if there really were the remains of the Golem there. After a short time, he descended with a scared white look on his face. The Rebbe Reshab took a very long time to pray the evening service. He then told his son: "I had to turn around the heavens for you."

Why did he say that?

===

Many years later, the Nazis overran Prague, and invaded this synaggue. Two Nazis brazenly ascended the steps too, in search of the Golem.

One Nazi pierced his bayonet into the pile of old books and manuscripts, to show that no such Golem was there. He froze, and died on the spot. His colleague, the other Nazi ran down thesteps with a frightened, white face. He died a short time later.

gohebrew's picture

Here are the various verses in the Book of Ruth.

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Apparently, the rule cited by John holds true, that the gimmel has a dagesh when it begins a word, but it does not have a dagesh after it follows a vowel.

The exceptions to this are found in Jeremiah 32:7-8, shown above, where the world "geulah" has a hei and a patach, or better known as the "hei hayadu'ah", when an object is singled out with the preface, "the", as it is used in English.

david h's picture

Orange rectangle= dagesh hazak

John Hudson's picture

Aside:

The old Jewish quarter in Prague is very well preserved, Israel, as is most of the rest of the city. Prague was spared from major aerial bombardment during the war and, with characteristic perversity, the Nazis planned to preserve the Jewish quarter as a museum of the people whom they intended to destroy. There are at least two pre-war synagogues still standing, as well as the cemetery, and many houses and buildings where Jews lived, ran businesses, and met in the many philanthropic and devotional organisations. It is a fascinating neighbourhood to walk around.

[Another place of pilgrimage for every visitor to Prague should be the crypt of the Orthodox Christian Cathedral of Saints Cyril and Methodius. This is where seven Czech commandos, responsible for the assassination of the SS security chief Reinhard Heydrich, the 'Butcher of Prague', made their last stand against almost 800 German troops.]

gohebrew's picture

David,

You seem to say that a gimmel with a dagesh in it, even after a vowel, is not an ordinary dagesh. Rather, it is a dagesh chazak, a strong dagesh.

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John,

Was one of the old synagogues still standing in Prague, the Old-New Shul, that housed the remains of the Golem?

I thought that it was destroyed.

===

It is there also that a very old Sefer Torah scroll has an aleph, which most modern-day Sefer Torah scrolls have a hei. This is evidence that the aleph is correct, and similar to the original text, even though it would be more logical to have an aleph.

gohebrew's picture

Examples of three types of gimmel: a) a gimmel with a dagesh chazak, b) a gimmel with an ordinary dagesh, and c) a gimmel without a dagesh

gohebrew's picture

David,

> ...what are you referring to?

Rabbi Shneur Zalman of Liadi — Siddur Rabbeinu Hazoken

Kehot Publication Society:
“Compiled by Rabbi Levi Y. Raskin
Marking the 201st anniversary of the publication of the Rabbi Schneur Zalman of Liadi‘s Siddur with this special bicentennial edition. A well researched, definitive and encyclopedic edition that offers citations and explanations of the sources and reasoning, behind Rabbi Schneur Zalman's rulings about halacha, prayer phraseology and pronunciation...

I have an earlier copy of this, which I rarely use.

Most Lubavitchers use a weekday prayerbook, and a Sabbath an holiday prayerbook, called "Tehillat Hashem". This, the Siddur Rabbeinu Hazoken, is purely a scholarly book.

The seventh Lubavitcher Rebbe himself used an older edition printed in Vilna, Lithuania at the Romm family printing establishment, called the Torah Ohy Siddur, which included the rulings and explanations of his scholar maternal grandfather.

Apparently, you are referring to something specific there.

As you know, Rabbi Schneur Zalman was a Hebrew grammar master, and sorted through seventy editions of the prayerbook until he composed his version of the Nusach Ari, the liturgy of the holy Ari"zal. This liturgy is unigue as it parallels the 13th path of the splitting of the Sea of Reeds for those who do not know which tribe they belong to. The other 12 paths have been lost. The other popular liturgies were introduced relatively recently.

William Berkson's picture

Israel, Biblical Grammar books explain the strong and weak dagesh in detail. Determining what is strong and weak leads to the same kind of chain of questions and conditions as was the case for the kamatz katan.

L'shana tova tikatev

gohebrew's picture

At first glance, it will then be possible to determine a logical sequence for a kamatz katan, I think, but the sequence needs to include a multiple wild card.

In a CSUB string can wild cards be included, John?

If not, then a conditional set of strings can then be created.

My guess is this will be the case, then, for the hataf kamatz katan, and maybe even the shva-na and the meteg as well.

Let's see it unravel.

There is a very beautiful custom I learned among the Sephardic Jews to extend the customary greeting of:
l'shana tova t'katev v't'chataym both on the first and second nights of Rosh Hashana.

Ashkenazic Jews do so only on the first night.

Logically, if we say that Rosh Hashana is one very long day, we should do so only on the second night.

In any case, the impact of this custom is that G-d sees that His children are united together, and like a parent towards children united together, this awakes His good will to bless them.

L'shana tova t'katav v't'chataym.

gohebrew's picture

> It is there also that a very old Sefer Torah scroll has an aleph, which most modern-day Sefer Torah scrolls have a hei. This is evidence that the aleph is correct, and similar to the original text, even though it would be more logical to have an aleph.

It should read:

It is there also that a very old Sefer Torah scroll has an aleph, which most modern-day Sefer Torah scrolls have a hei. This is evidence that the aleph is correct, and similar to the original text, even though it would be more logical to have a hei.

It would be grammatically correct to have a hei.

gohebrew's picture

I heard a very wonderful explanation why we use an apple specifically to dip in honey.

Aren't there other sweet fruits to use?

In Hebrew, an apple is called a "tah-pu-ach".

"Tapuach" means something filled up very full.

On Rosh Hashana, we beseech G-d to be blessed with a good and sweet year filled up very full with blessings. This prayerful wish is symbolized by using an apple.

I also heard that red is associated with sweetness, and green is less, as we see often with apples in general.

gohebrew's picture

David,

In Lev. 25:29, the gimmel of "guelato" (the last word in the verse) is without a dagesh, even though it is not preceded with a vowel.

I don't know what a letter that has either a weak dagesh or a strong dagesh is called when it has no dagesh.

Earlier, I remarked on John's statement about the impact of a dagesh that a "...“spirant” sound is soft, smooth, and longer, while a dagesh sound is hard, abrupt, and shorter."

So, a letter without a dagesh is "spirant" - soft, smooth, and longer.

John, what you are saying is that the sound emitted when a letter has no dagesh is different than a letter which has a dagesh, in all circumstances (not only in beit, kaf, peh, and tav).

For example, in Numbers 24:5, we begin 'davenning' every day with the word's of Bilaam's blessing for the Jewish people, after seeing that their tents were assembled in a modest manner, with the openning of the tent not facing the openning of the neighbor's tent.

Mah tovu - how goodly... would be pronounced differently if there was not a dagesh in the teht.

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Is this physically possible?

david h's picture

Israel,

Last sample -- Mah tovu: I think that you need to have...makkef; not meteg, but merekha. the dagesh is hazak. we call it dehik; and there's ate merahik.

(today is a short day, so let's see; if not today, I'll post about that after rosh hashanah)

gohebrew's picture

David,

This post was from the siddur, where there is no taam. I was only trying to demonstrate with and without a dagesh.

I will try to post these words from a chumash.

William Berkson's picture

Israel, you do understand, don't you, that the Tiberian system of nikkud preserves many distinctions that no longer exist in spoken Hebrew? The Ashkenasi pronunciation, which I believe you use, does, unlike the Israeli Hebrew, distinguish two pronunciations of Tav, with and without the dagesh, but not a difference in pronunciation of the gimmel with and without the dagesh. And evidently there was a difference in ancient times. There are many other examples. That's why this whole thing is so arcane.

gohebrew's picture

William,

> That’s why this whole thing is so arcane

I disagree, based upon very simple logic.

First, in historical terms, many people use the past as a living lesson to learn from in a way that improves their lives.

As learning from Avot and to cultivate good midot is an important factor at your institute to become a mensch.

So, you see the past is a vital part of the future.

Second, the difference between the customary (often unlearned) pronunciation in Israel, and many millions of certain Jews in America, and an older manner of speech used by millions of other Jews in the whole world, is only at this time.

But, as they say, "the times they are a'changing".

In the words of our sages of blessed memory, we say every day: "[...He] raises the lowly to supreme heights." Today, it's lowly and arcane, but tomorrow it will be lofty and significant.

I think that it's important to know both systems well. Hedge your bets, as they say. :)

It's like the future of Reform Judaism. It's a factor to deal with today, but it may be less and less of a factor in the future.

K'tiva v'cha'ti'ma tova.

John Hudson's picture

Was one of the old synagogues still standing in Prague, the Old-New Shul, that housed the remains of the Golem?

Yes, the Old New Shul is still there. The upper room, the genizah where the legendary Prague Golem was kept, is closed to the public of course.

In a CSUB string can wild cards be included, John?

Note: GSUB, not CSUB. G for glyph.

It is possible to define glyph groups that can then be employed like wildcards in context strings. So, for example, you might have a glyph group for 'any_mark' or for 'any_letter' that would contain all the appropriate glyphs. These can be used in both GSUB and GPOS lookups.

John Hudson's picture

The vocalisation of the Bible text as standardised by the Tiberian -- i.e. Palestinian -- Masoretes, represents the pronunciation as current around the 8th–10th Century, i.e. more than a thousand years after the last of the original consonantal texts was written. We know for a fact that this mediaeval pronunciation did not perfectly match the ancient pronunciation, because of those places in the text where the vowels do not match neatly the number of consonants, the most famous example being the vocalisation of YRShLM as if it were YRShLYM. As I wrote in one of the other threads, vowels are the most fluid aspect of language, both in terms of individual pronunciation and in terms of regional and historical variation. A vowel is a movement of air through the throat and mouth, and as such is much less precise than a consonant, which is a restriction or stoppage of air at a specific point in the throat or mouth. I remember reading some time ago about a linguistic professor who had trained himself to perfectly produce cardinal vowel sounds according to the open/closed, front/medial/back analysis of vowel sounds, but this was remarkable exactly because this is not how people normally talk.

Michel Boyer's picture

I searched for "ג [anything but a blank]* א [anything but a blank]* ל [anything but a blank]* ה" (where * means one or more of the thing between brackets) and found this single instance with a ו in the short resulting list:

Michel Boyer's picture

> where * means one or more of the thing between brackets

Correction: * means zero, one or more. There could be no character between ג and א and there would be a match. The word גאלה matches the pattern.

gohebrew's picture

Michel,

You are living proof the the Talmud's statement, "ya'ga'ta u'ma'tza'ta" - if you really search, you'll find!

John,

So, the Golem's remains are still here with us. And I assume the ancient Torah scroll, I think one of the oldest, is similarly 'living' proof of one of Masoretic texts.

I know that every Purim holiday, when we recite this passage from the Sefer Torah scroll, we "read" both versions out loud, even if only one version is written there.

About the wildcard searches, I will discuss with you by email what I have in mind. Actually, I want to use this feature in a few different ways, as we will discuss.

===

In Michel's example, this is a strong dagesh, because most gimmels which follow a vowel do not have a dagesh. Usually, only a gimmel which begins a verse has a dagesh. Some gimmels that begin a verse do not have a dagesh.

What is a gimmel without a dagesh which begins a verse called?

===

On Rosh Hashana, as I recited in the prayerbook the holiday prayers, I noticed the appearance of the gimmel a lot, whether it had a dagesh or not, and whether it followed a vowel or not.

First, I noticed that in general the gimmel appeared with much less frequency that most other letters. Is this why its form is less significant (i.e. more narrow)? :)

Second, when any noun followed after a "hei ha-ye-di-ah", a hei with a patach (eg. the xxxx), the first letter has a dagesh. Hence, even if the gimmel follows after a vowel, in this case it has a dagesh, and is not necessarily a strong dagesh.

In this second example, what is this dagesh called?

gohebrew's picture

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gohebrew's picture

Where in books of Hebrew grammar is kamatz katan discussed?

Michel Boyer's picture

> if you really search, you’ll find!

Maybe, but searching more gives this from the mechon mamre tanakh with the same Ruth 4:7

John Hudson's picture

Michel, I checked Ruth 4:7 in my print editions, and the gimel appears in the Codex Leningradensis (so occurs in the BHK, BHS and BHL editions). The gimel also appears in my JPS Tanakh (1999).

The Mechom Mamre online Tanakh is based on the JPS 1917 edition. I wonder if the gimel is omitted in the 1917 printed text, or if it is an error or editorial decision in the electronic version?

Anyone have a 1917 JPS Tanakh at hand?

gohebrew's picture

These examples show that the gimmel has a strong dagesh, even where the letter preceding it has a vowel.

I assume the gimmel has a strong dagesh even when it has no letter preceding it.

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