Typo-trolls

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Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
Typo-trolls
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I heart trolls as much as the next bloke. The blighters add a level of entertainment and fun to the forum, and I’ve occasionally engaged in troll-baiting and border-line trollish behavior.

What unsettles me is when a troll takes on a fake ethnicity/geo-location, and proceeds to negatively exploit national/racial stereotypes. Does anyone else have a problem with that? Or is that just the way of the Web?

Blank's picture
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006 - 2:15pm
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It’s one of the reasons I avoid much of the internet entirely. I’m not sure why Typophiles have, of late, insisted on feeding the trolls.

cylonkitten's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008 - 5:49am
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there is an old newsgroup saying which i follow to the letter....

dont feed the trolls

Peace out

Simsy

Tiffany Wardle's picture
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Joined: 13 Jul 2001 - 11:00am
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Simon, I agree. If there is a specific person on Typophile you feel needs a talking to email that person's name to me.

James Mark Hatley's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2004 - 11:00am
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It is actually an interesting question. You mention, honestly, that you have exhibited trollish behavior. I would guess that what you are talking about is, in a sense, playing devil's advocate, as it is said, to stimulate and push a discussion forward. I think this is a very good point.

As far as the ethnicity issue, I would mention that I recently fed a troll a Borat flavored morsel. I really see a similarity. I guess there are those that treat a board as a holy receptacle of knowledge where no sideways comments or anything that does not explicitly contribute to the discussion should be tolerated. Personally, I believe a well crafted digression can be a welcome contribution.

Consider the specifics here though. Why would anyone attack E.S. for owning "cool fonts". It isn't a legit crit—just a silly joke. One that I admit I do not get the point of at all.

Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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What is "troll?"

genericboy's picture
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Joined: 3 Dec 2007 - 2:20pm
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In this specific instance, I really thought that it was probably a joke 'alt' rather than an actual troll. James (jupiterboy) mentioned Borat - I think that's probably a fair comparison. Whether or not you find that sort of thing funny or even acceptable is of course another matter.

Christopher, a troll (in this context) is basically a forum member who posts argumentative, rude, or controversial material, just for the sake of riling others. They're pretty rare on Typophile (as a member of several gaming forums it's pretty blissful spending some time here!)

A fuller explanation can be found here.

Take care,

Andi

[semibad]

guiyong's picture
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008 - 11:00am
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What unsettles me is when a troll takes on a fake ethnicity/geo-location, and proceeds to negatively exploit national/racial stereotypes.

Simon do you suggest that entire population of Tokyo is raving lunatics with broken English? Gui Yong is native of Honshū Island and is very well read man, in spite of occasional bananas postings. He make no issues of race and belong only to lunatic stereotypes.

Many love and I wish very best of fun,
Gui Yong

James Mark Hatley's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2004 - 11:00am
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^ see, that is crafted. He asks Simon and absurd question, which includes a hyperbolic statement of stereotype, then turns and squarely identifies himself as part of the same.

guiyong's picture
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008 - 11:00am
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No, what Gui Yong is saying is that he conforms only to the stereotype of being a lunatic and not to any racial stereotype.

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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I think Simone is right – if you treat all trolls equally (ie. ignore them) then the ethno-fictitious ones are ignored along with the ethno-authentic ones.

And the Borat reference is spot on. Which makes me think the issue is not a problem for most people. Lots of people, probably most people, don’t have a problem with Borat, but personally I wasn’t able to watch more than fifteen minutes.

Graham McArthur's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2004 - 4:54am
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I can put up with the trolls. Its the orcs that live around here that really get under my skin.

Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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What's an orc?

Steve Peter's picture
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Joined: 8 May 2004 - 11:00am
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Good lord, man, break out your Tolkien!

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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"Good lord, man, break out your Tolkien!"

I spent all my tolkiens on the expressway today... should have seen the troll taker, covered in primordial ooze : )

Michael

Graham McArthur's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2004 - 4:54am
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"What’s an orc?"

Are you not familiar with the book 'The Lord of the Rings'?
You can google 'Orcs' and find out quite a lot about them.
You really can't mistake one once met. Very unpleasant creatures.
They tend to show up here quite often. When one appears it attracts one or two others and they carry on so in their own unintelligible mutterings, mostly harmless but very annoying.

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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Usually sans intelligence.

Michael

Raymond Kingston's picture
Joined: 4 Sep 2006 - 12:28am
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What an enjoyable read this thread has become!

And there's nothing quite like referring to yourself as though you're not there. ; )

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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Whacked by a paradiddle!

Michael

guiyong's picture
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008 - 11:00am
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Where can I find this “Sans Intelligence” Mr. Typerror? Did you design this?

Also why did you name your childrens http://Pooper Black?

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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You are sitting on it now Gui Yong! Get it?

Michael

Blank's picture
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Joined: 25 Sep 2006 - 2:15pm
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What’s an orc?

See, that’s trolling. Because there is absolutely no way that you’re nerdy enough to be a Typophile and not know what an orc is.

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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James... I had to call Graham to ask. Sorry I am a nerd!

Michael

Graham McArthur's picture
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Joined: 3 Apr 2004 - 4:54am
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"Where can I find this “Sans Intelligence” Mr. Typerror? Did you design this?"

I am surprised that an informed type historian such as yourself has not come across this most noteworthy of all sans from the complete Orcfont family. This innovative and ground breaking font is so revolutionary as to be totally devoid of substance all together. Its characterless features are mind numbing in their simplicity without one redeeming virtue. What is most striking in 'San Intelligence' is not what appears to the eye, but what banality has gone on in its creation and development.
A watershed of type design which no other can come close to, or even wish to.

'Sans Intelligence' is pure type, its perfection is an indefinable property that only sensitive critics (liken to yourself, Gui Yong) can intuitively recognise in a work of art. Unfortunately insensitive critics (such as Mr Typerror - please excuse his ignorance) are unable to appreciate its full and unique magnificence.

cylonkitten's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008 - 5:49am
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sii,

I used to see a hell of a lot of issues with trolls making a total (expelative deleted) of themselves in various other forums

which is why i follow the dont feed the trolls rule. Simple reasoning being is if you give them fuel it will go on to making the trolls fire worse and make them contuine.

if all people followed that simple mantra.. the world of forums would be a better place due to trolls realising they wont win :)
Having said that though virtual napalm usually works in most cases to get rid of a stubbon troll. But i wouldn't advise that as it is rather painful for the troll to get a virtual kick in the nuts.

peace out

Simone (Simsy)

James Arboghast's picture
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Joined: 20 Sep 2005 - 1:09pm
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I treat trolls the same way such persons are treated in a real building filled with real peeple. I apply common standards of civility and professional conduct aimed at dealing with the incivility and disruption they cause.

@cyclonkitten: if all people followed that simple mantra.. the world of forums would be a better place due to trolls realising they wont win :)

I couldn't agree more. At Wikipedia trolls & cranks disrupt the editing process, and we just block them, these annoying disruptive and often sociopathic attention-seekers.

Having said that though virtual napalm usually works in most cases to get rid of a stubbon troll. But i wouldn’t advise that as it is rather painful for the troll to get a virtual kick in the nuts.

Well, you know I get butch about this, the task of enforcing the rules and guidelines designed to promote topical discussion and hose out the anti-social elements.

Trolls are "fair game". Come in here and show your contempt for our community and you will get a "virtual" kick in the nuts from me. Trolls and cranks should know that Arbo loves playing hardball with their kind, yes. I actually enjoy playing you,

I saved a place for you
I saved a place for all of you
I want to pull you all in
I want you guessing when the truth begins

Let's all fake happiness
We'll put on a good show
I'll lie through my teeth
I'll teach you how to cheat
A M E N --- Y e a h !

It doesn't seem to matter
When it's all about you
It doesn't seem to matter
When it's all about you

I'll try to make amends
I'll try to mend all of you
I want to let you all in
I want to live where the truth can win

Let's all fake happiness
We'll put on a good show
We'll have fun in the streets
We'll kill who tries to cheat
A M E N --- Y e a h !

It doesn't seem to matter
When it's only about you
It doesn't seem to matter
When it's only about you

I want to let you all in
I want to live where the truth wins

It doesn't seem to matter
When it's only about you
It doesn't seem to matter
When it's only about you
—words by Richard Patrick.

j a m e s

guiyong's picture
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Joined: 11 Aug 2008 - 11:00am
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James you are a bit strange.

cylonkitten's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2008 - 5:49am
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James i agree with you in part with your comments about trolls.

Well, you know I get butch about this, the task of enforcing the rules and guidelines designed to promote topical discussion and hose out the anti-social elements.

Well there is enforcing the rules.. and then there is flame wars trolls vs the rest of us. I rather have the rules enforced than have a flame war with a troll..

If the thread gets out of hand with the troll then virtual napalm rules apply (which means moderators get involved and the whole nine yards)

peace out

Simone

Murray Crocker's picture
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Joined: 25 Oct 2006 - 10:52pm
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OH now i get it James mate! is this thread over here you started a troll??

http://typophile.com/node/52540

I thought you were being serious but its clear youre up for a laugh!! Good one MAte!!!

-----------------------
Chopper Reid says "Harden the fuck up".

James Arboghast's picture
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Joined: 20 Sep 2005 - 1:09pm
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is this thread over here you started a troll??

I'm not quite sure what you mean Muzz. I suppose I'm serious and taking the piss at the same time. And you're ryte anyway, I am definitely up for a laugh.

j a m e s

James Arboghast's picture
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Joined: 20 Sep 2005 - 1:09pm
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@Cyclonkitten: f the thread gets out of hand with the troll then virtual napalm rules apply (which means moderators get involved and the whole nine yards)

It's the base standard for civility in web communities which have not yet institutionalized formal rules and guidelines for civility. The no ad hominem rule doesn't apply to trolls because they flout that basic rule, and this is how they turn themselves into fair game.

James you are a bit strange.

You wouldn't last 5 minutes in my world, dude.

When I have a thing to say to you, you should try assume good faith, for while it may sting at the time, eventually I will teach you to fly strate. I've had much success with much taller and tuffer customers than you.

Peace.

j a m e s

Ray Larabie's picture
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Joined: 4 Aug 2006 - 5:54pm
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This thread is totally racist etc.

Claudio Piccinini's picture
Joined: 11 Jan 2003 - 9:32am
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I think it should basically be distinguished whether interventions disrupt more or less serious threads or they just originate as trollish…
Personally I was not annoyed by Guiyong, except when he apparently dropped in serious discussions, and apparently with a wish to contribute, and then disappeared (see my thread about Language coverage and Unicode).
I enjoy some of your lunatics' irony, Gui, but I have difficulties in thinking you are effectively Japanese: do you have some work on the web to show? If you are not Japanese it's not a problem, as long as you are not bugging me with your "cool fonts" delirium… :=)

Sii: not knowing you, I was annoyed by your ermetic apparent irony and words, but it consoles me a lot to read you disliked Borat. That "movie" is an offense to the world… :=)

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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James Pucket wrote:

I’m not sure why Typophiles have, of late, insisted on feeding the trolls.

I wonder what's worse: Regular users feeding a troll, or you removing legitimate Troll flags on Typedrawers for your personal friends?

hhp

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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Does Hrant feel left out?

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Vindication is sweetest from outside.

That said, I still hope you guys manage to control your troll problem. Schadenfreude isn't my thing. My only purpose here was to expose hypocrisy.

hhp

Neil Caldwell's picture
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Joined: 8 Jan 2010 - 12:11am
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My only purpose here was to expose hypocrisy.

hhp

Without hypocrisy there would be no Government.

n.

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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Like you were not a hypocrite on numerous occasions. Give me a break.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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I'm one of the least hypocritical people you know.

Anyway it's good to see somebody else agree that James is being hypocritical.

hhp

Michael Clark's picture
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Joined: 2 Mar 2005 - 12:24pm
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The old saying: "I live in my own little world, but it is o.k. because I know everyone there" is truly applicable to you.

Neil Caldwell's picture
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Joined: 8 Jan 2010 - 12:11am
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You guys are epic!!

Reminds me of something I read back in the day when I was embrangled in the chess community.

The Gossage—Vardebedian Papers by Woody Allen, now upped on youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cOKIqAk7Ko

:)

n.