Peace for Hasan Abu 'Afash and Gaza

Saad Abulhab's picture

.

Please join us in praying for our typography colleague and friend in Gaza, Arabic type designer Hasan Abu Afash, and wish him, his family, and his people peace and safety.

The text above is set on Adobe InDesign ME Tasmeem using his fonts, Hasan Hiba, Hassan Noor, and Basim Marah. Hasan worked very hard on these fonts in the past year and half in blockaded, electricity deprived, Gaza. He is a self-taught, talented, typographer and a hardworking family man. His third baby was born few months ago. Here is what he wrote us on Christmas eve, 2008:

Happy Holidays to ALL.
Please pray for me (us) in my terrible situation here in GAZA.
Hasan

Please visit his "Hiba Studio" website to appreciate his hard work and dedication to Arabic typography on the occasion of the new year. We are sure this can help alleviate some of his suffering in Gaza today:

http://hibastudio.com/

Hasan's typography friends.

AzizMostafa's picture

Praying that Gaza Resistance Will Triumph

Vladimir Tamari's picture

The above text translate as:
"In the Name of God the Merciful and Compassionate"
"Long Live the Steadfastness of Gaza"
"Dear Hasan: May God give you patience and comfort these days"
"We pray that the smile will return to the children of honor"
This last is the result of a fortunate type error where a dot was deleted from the word Gaza غزة to make it 'Eza عزة-honor.

Below is a verbatim record of a text chat with Hasan made on Dec. 6 2008 in the 'peaceful' cease-fire days when Gaza was six months into a devastating Israeli blockade that prevented foods, medicines and gasoline from reaching the area, resulting for example in daily electricity cuts. Hasan's Arabic is translated within square brackets. I answered in English or transliterated Arabic because of my slowness to type Arabic. Hasan's often-repeated refrain لا زلنا نقرع جدران الخزان that "‫we still knock on the walls of the water tank" refers to the novel Men in the Sun by Ghassan Kanafani (available from Amazon) where a group of Palestinians try to cross the desert smuggled inside the tank of a water truck to seek work in the Gulf. Before they perish from the heat of the sun they pound the walls of the tank to call for help.

Here is the chat, initiated by Hasan. The text formatting is garbled in places because of the difficulty of alternating right-to left Arabic lines with English left to right ones. I apologize to Hasan for publishing his private remarks, but they show his gentle poetic spirit and the ironic humor that help him survive impossible conditions:

8:24 PM
me: hello dear Hasan how are you?
Hasan: Thanks
I am fine
and you
me: and the situation?
tamam elhamdillah [fine, thank God]
Hasan: Very Good
me: good
Hasan:
‫لا زلنا نقرع جدران الخزان‬
‫الحمد لله اتبعنا النصيحة‬
8:25 PM
‫وصرنا ننام بكير‬

We still knock on the walls of the water tank. Thank God we now followed the advice to sleep early]

me: ya haram..bas elmneeh annak laysa wahdak..
[poor guy, but its good you are not alone]
8:26PM Hasan
‫علشان الصحة نراها كيف تصير‬
‫ولا نت ولا كمبيوتر من أجل عيوننا‬
‫والأكل خففنا، والمشي جربنا، وما عاد نحتاج مستشفيات ‫فسكرت

[and see how health improves. No internet or computers benefits the eyes and we no longer need hospitals because they have closed]
me: aah hadi iuqta muhemme...la takrahanna shay'an la3allahu khayrun lakum!
[This is important.."Hate not something it may turn out for your good!"]
Hasan: ‫وصرنا نعتمد بالأكل على الخضروات الطبيعية لأنو ما في غاز‬

[and we rely on raw vegetables becausae there is no gas
me: nuqta muhemme
[an important point - [correcting a typo]]
Hasan: ‫هاها‬
[haha]
me: sharru alamr ma yudhek!
[the worst happening is one that makes you laugh]
8:27 PM me: what do you think will happen?
Hasan: ‫الفجر قادم‬
‫عما قليل تشرق الشمس[The dawn is coming. Soon the sun will shine]

22 days later the Israeli jets started pounding Gaza and contact with Hasan was cut...

pascal zoghbi's picture

Dear Colleagues
Dearest Hasan

i hope hasan and his beloved family are Ok in Gaza.
i was also trying to contact him for the last 5 days but i am not able.
neither by email nor by phone.

usually i always see him online on ichat or so...
and we chat so technical OT stuff or just friends talk...

he always asked me to pray for him and all of the Palestinians living in Gaza in the end of each chat we had.

and even before bombing started, they were in not able tog et so much food supplies, electricity was always coming only few hours (so it was like precious time when he is online for us to exchange all the needed info...), and the humanitarian issues were getting worse and worse by the day.

and now it is always a question of how we can help.
but actually there is very little that we can actually do.
or maybe even nothing, due t the Israeli extreme blockade on the Strip.

i hope i will read him own comment in this thread soon.
and i hope the bombing of Gaza will stop soon.
and no more innocent blood is shed.

peace

Pascal Zoghbi

pascal zoghbi's picture

01/01/2009

latest chat with Hasan

Me:
17:07
i am happy to see you online 17:07
i was so worried about you 17:07

Hasan:
شكراً لك 17:07

Me:
i hope you and your family are well 17:07

Hasan:
الوضع صعب للغاية 17:07

Me:
i know 17:07
seeing the news lately 17:07
so you are ok 17:08
and your home... 17:08

Hasan:
نعم 17:08

Me:
are the bombing close to where you live? 17:08

Hasan:
حتى الآن 17:08
ولكن فقدت الكثير من الأعزاء 17:08

Me:
good to hear that 17:08

Hasan:
والكهرباء بالكاد تأتي ... 17:08
لها 36 ساعة مقطوعة 17:08

Me:
the important thing that you and your family are ok 17:09

Hasan:
شكراً 17:10

John Hudson's picture

I sent Hasan an email a few days ago, after the bombing campaign started, and today was relieved to receive a response from him:

Thanks,
am still alive ... but.
Thanks for your wishing.

Just I need your prayers.

piccic's picture

Thanks to you all for sharing the messages, I truly appreciate the care you show.
I knew Hasan site, which hosts also an interview with John and so many good resources.

I lose too much time on the web, time to shut off the computer and actually pray. That's what matters.

Vladimir Tamari's picture

... pray. That’s what matters
Hasan too is very devout; he had told me that he wakes up at dawn to perform the first of the five daily prayers for a Muslim.

Here is a translation of Hasan's Arabic in the above chat with Pascal:
[Thank You...The situation is extremely difficult...17:08 Yes...until now...but I lost many dear ones...and the electricity is hardly available..it has been cut since 36 hours...thanks]

AzizMostafa's picture

Hasan appeared here last night exchanging "Bloody New Year"
http://graphics4arab.com/showthread.php?p=11739&posted=1#post11739

More Importantly:
http://www.countercurrents.org/lamb301208.htm

H_Afash's picture

What I can say ...
I don't have any words, but thanks to your great feelings toward me.
I am too luck to have you as a great friends.
Thanks....

Just, pray for us ...

piccic's picture

Hasan, it's comforting to see you here.

Nothing can break the complex blend of ignorance and evil actions all over history, nor enlighten our infirmity, except Charity. Prayer doesn't need to be a sentimental experience, all is required is that's sincere, as much as we can. All the rest is in His hands.
The wealth of the West is as much deadly as the shameful situations of war in other countries.

I pray for your family and friends, and for the attacking forces to be enlightened and stop this madness.

John Hudson's picture

Anyone heard anything from Hasan since Friday?

Vladimir Tamari's picture

No news is...bad news. The military operations are being enacted in civilian neighborhoods so there is that danger. There is no gasoline for electricity which affects the water supplies. There is lack of food and medication and the hospitals are overloaded with care for the wounded. It makes for an ongoing humanitarian catastrophe.

Today a friend e-mailed me the URL of another Gaza graphic artist. Omayya Joha is a cartoonist, designer, and mother of a child called Noor ('Light', a popular Arab name which is also the name of one of Hasan's fonts). She also holds a degree in mathematics. This seems to be the only page in English about her on her website, an interview with Al-Jazeera:
http://www.omayya.com/new_omayya/carton-206.html

We pray for the safety of Hasan, Omayya and their families, for a cease-fire and a just peace.

H_Afash's picture

Thanks to all of you,
I am fine.

Forgive me for my delay. It was the bad situations we are facing in Gaza now.
I think that you heard about for NEWS.
The electricity as switched off since 7 days and we are living in a dangerous situations.
Please pray for us to be safe and peace.

Hasan

William Berkson's picture

I pray for your safety and for a quick and lasting peace.

Vladimir Tamari's picture

Its great to hear that Hasan is not only well, but was able to finalize an Arabic font commission even during the invasion. His portfolio of font designs and services is impressive enough even in normal circumstances. See this page and the ones that follow it on his website for samples of his fonts.
http://hibastudio.com/links/Fonts_Eng/Hasan_Eng01.html

Also Hasan Noor, Hasan Hiba, and Basim Marah on on the Tasmeem plugin site:
http://www.winsoft-international.com/en/store/fonts.html

Saad Abulhab's picture

.

Our hearts with you and Gaza, Hasan. The continuing horrors in Gaza this past new year season is a black mark on humanity face. We should never forget or forgive those who committed such crimes, or ignore them through media censorship. What can one say: In the end Gaza and Palestine will triumph.

-Saad

John Hudson's picture

I would prefer it if a thread that is supposed to be about peace and concern for our friend Hasan not be used as a platform for anti-Jewish conspiracy theories and propaganda produced by white supremacists. With or without flowers!

Vladimir Tamari's picture

Thank you John.

Saad Abulhab's picture

This thread is about peace and solidarity with our colleague, type designer Hasan Abu Afash and Gaza, where he and his family live. Everyone should condemn the undisputed crimes against humanity committed in Gaza today, but I agree with John, this thread should not be used as political or ideological platform.

-Saad

AzizMostafa's picture

I agree with Saad that everyone should condemn the undisputed crimes against humanity committed in Gaza today

Saad Abulhab's picture

Thanks, Aziz for observing the non political nature of this thread.

Meanwhile, let's pray and if not let's sing for Gaza with Michael Heart latest song, may be Hasan who contacted us last on January 8th can find comfort with it if he finds his way the web again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHy1T-tao9w

http://www.tropismes.org/post/462

-Saad

AzizMostafa's picture


For Gaza by our typography colleague+friend from Mauritania:
http://typophile.com/user/13041

Vladimir Tamari's picture

This is hypnotic...I have been watching the poor dove retreat away from the advancing text over and over and over. At least it has dropped the dagger so peace may yet be achieved. The slogan says May God grant victory to our brothers in Gaza. No mention of the sisters. The unblinking dot on the G makes it look like the Arab letter ghain to complete the name of Gaza غزة in Arabic...its well-intentioned, and rather sad.

The following drawing by the Gaza cartoonist Omayya Joha was uploaded to her website three days after the Israeli offensive began.The text says O Gaza we will redeem you with our souls and blood She signs her name with a key, symbolizing the key to her original family home in Palestine, now Israel.
from http://www.omayya.com/new_omayya/carton-206.html

Saad Abulhab's picture

Vladimir wrote:

>>This is hypnotic...I have been watching the poor dove retreat away from the advancing text over and over and over. At least it has dropped the dagger so peace may yet be achieved.

I like it, the dove is not retreating, but bring the sentence about peace with honor for Gaza.

>>The slogan says May God grant victory to our brothers in Gaza. No mention of the sisters.

This is great point, Muhammad Hacen should update it with: اللهم انصر شعبنا في غزة

-Saad

AzizMostafa's picture

> She signs her name with a key, symbolizing the key to her original family home in Palestine, now Israel.

Hope the home will be given back voluntarily to the key-owner,
and the new occupant will collect his belongings and will be allowed
to go back to his original home. Otherwise means otherwise?

Thanks Vladimir Tamari for the link with Flowers

Saad Abulhab's picture

..

Thanks, Vladimir. I pray she will be safe in Gaza. Gaza has many talented people whose lives are threatened now. I liked her cartoon, above. It matches the situation. The Arabic word الصمت (English for Silence ). This is what most international media is doing: silence. Silence in the face of crimes against humanity is equal to participation!

-Saad

AzizMostafa's picture

> Silence in the face of crimes against humanity is equal to participation!
... and Lies to cover the crimes against humanity is equal to Destruction!
http://typophile.com/node/53099

AzizMostafa's picture

> The text says O Gaza we will redeem you with our souls and blood

Vladimir Tamari, that's a word by word translation.
Deeper with Flowers:
To die in defense of religion+homeland is better than living with invaders.

Vladimir Tamari's picture

Saad:the dove is not retreating, but bring the sentence about peace with honor for Gaza
Aziz:To die in defense of religion+homeland is better than living with invaders
Its not what you or I feel or think, it is what an immediate and literal perception of the animated gif and the cartoon would suggest. We Arabs love to shout our slogans and yet exercise great subtlety in poetry. I was lamenting the fact that this sophistication is only recently being translated to the visual arts including graphics in the mass media. The first reaction to Zionism in 1948 was to show daggers dripping with blood when it was Sten guns that were being used against us. Now they are using remote-controlled pilotless aircraft supported by satellite imagery, but the miserable old daggers are still there unchanged (well, they are now beautifully photoshopped). Hollywood loves to depict Moslems and Arabs as terrorists in blockbuster movies seen around the world, while we still address the West with vapid images and overused phrases. If a just peace is ever to be achieved we must learn to communicate our news, concerns and ideas in a language that brings understanding and respect.

AzizMostafa's picture

> Hollywood loves to depict Moslems and Arabs as terrorists in blockbuster movies seen around the world,

Movies and drawings. I have just commented on one:
http://typophile.com/node/53099?page=3#comment-322198

... while we still address the West with vapid images and overused phrases.

1. Those who still address the West with vapid images and overused phrases are either ignorant, stupid or crooked.

2. Read my comment one 2008-12-22 8:11 here:
http://www.awangpurba.blogspot.com/

3. Search + see the Iranian Posters.

Saad Abulhab's picture

Dear Hassan

We have not heard from you since January 8th. We are missing your presence on typography forums, but are still praying for you and Gaza. Our hearts are still bleeding, but are full with anger too. The criminals committing these Nazi like atrocities in Gaza will never win and have not scared us. They are more despicable then ever. In the end, these racist thieves who managed to settle violently in your land, Palestine, will be forced to live in peace with *ALL* Palestinians, equal but not chosen! This would be their well deserved punishment.

http://www.aljazeera.net/nr/exeres/8387fb46-bb6e-484f-8420-d7833360b0e6.htm

-Saad

behnam's picture

Dear Hassan,

I hope you are not hurt. I hope your children are not hurt. I also hope something else for your grandchildren to come.
Tell your compatriots you lost, they won. Many years ago. Get over it.
Their history also is coming out of a grand desperation. They won't be racist, not any more than what we generally are, if they don't feel threatened their mere existance day in and day out.
This is not the official message of Islamic regime of Iran. It is the message of a Persian who knows how unhealthy it is to constantly feed from hatred. Persians lost to Arabs, fourteen hundred years ago. And they never quite got over it. So I know what I'm talking about. Since then, we had Mongols and Tartars invation, Western and Russian influence, but we always blamed Arabs for weakening us so that we couldn't properly defend ourselves!
Don't count on that regim support. They survive in feeding hatred. They don't give a damn about you. Whatever they do, is to serve their own interest. I know it, because regardless, they too, are Persians.
Make peace with the new reality and all UN resolutions will be honored to the best interest of all habitants of the region over your lifetime. As for your grandchildren, they will read about this horrible days in their history books, then they will go to playground to play.
Don't allow perpetual misery for your grandchildren. Stop the hatered. You lost, they won. Get over it.

AzizMostafa's picture

According to the original bilateral arrangement between Israel and the PA,
some 60 percent of the revenues from the sale of the gas will go to BG;
30% will go to BG's partner in the deal, the British energy company CCC,
and 10% of the revenue, estimated to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars a year, is to be designated for the PA's Palestinian Investment Fund, under the auspices of the office of Palestinian Authority President M. Abbas.

"However, now that the PA is no longer in control of the Gaza Strip,
or the marine area off of its coast, Israel, should it purchase the gas,
would no longer be making payments to the PA, but rather would have to pay Hamas," explained the BG source.

Israel is obviously opposed to the money ending up in the hands of Hamas,
and British law mandates that should a British organization enter into any sort of negotiations with a terrorist group, that organization's leaders will be brought to trial and may be sentenced to jail, the source said.

"Therefore, Israel and BG have come to a new understanding of transferring
the money into an international account - allowing the deal to go through,"
he said.

The deal appears to exclude Hamas from receiving any of the revenues from the gas sales.

Hamas, meanwhile, intends to ask for changes in the agreement with BG, Bloomberg reported two weeks ago. "It is unreasonable that the owner of the gas, Palestine, gets 10% only," Mohammed al-Madhoun, the director of Hamas leader Ismail Haniya's office, told the Palestinian Information Center, a Hamas Web site.

"The government has no problem cooperating with the British gas company but only after modifying some points of the 1999 contract."

Still investigating:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ticle/ShowFull
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/G...ow/3935036.cms
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...zaagasforblair
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle1826739.ece
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssI...00806120080409
http://www.jerusalemites.org/article...7/July/294.htm
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0901/S00101.htm
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&sect...=21&m=4&y=2005
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/10011
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/S...?itemNo=887097
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3...gas-field.html

BloodShed for Oil?

To Behnam, Did ImamHosyan win or lose in Karbala 1400 years ago?

Vladimir Tamari's picture

Latest news: In a chat message Hasan a couple of hours ago he said he is safe has good morale which he attributes to his faith in God. He expressed thankfulness to all his friends here. His cousin (mother's sister's son) and the cousin's two young sons were burned to death in their home in central Gaza due to bombing by Israeli tanks or jets. The cousin's 15-year-old daughter Amira Daud AlQurum was also assumed dead in the burning rubble. In fact she had watched them die and was wounded in the leg but survived a harrowing two days alone in a nearby house without food, water or heat, and almost bleeding to death, as described in this Arabic news story (with an English summary below)
http://www.maannews.net/arb/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=138756


AMIRA DAUD ALQURUM A 15 YEAR OLD GAZA GIRL FLEES BLEEDING TO AN ABANDONED HOUSE AFTER HER FAMILY WERE KILLED AND SURVIVES TWO DAYS AMID THE TERROR AND BOMBARDMENT
She was discovered barely alive after bleeding for two days in an empty house without food, water or heating near her home. Her relatives found the charred bodies of her father Daud (42) and two brothers Ismat (12) and 'Alaa (11) victims of a projectile from an Israeli tank or jet plane, and at first thought she was burned too. When they found her she only had five units of blood left in her and was immediately hospitalized. Her first words to her rescuer were "sorry uncle, I stayed in your home without your permission".

Saad Abulhab's picture

Bahnam wrote to Hassan following this horrible ordeal:

>>Tell your compatriots you lost, they won. Many years ago. Get over it.

They can only win when their victims accept living *quietly* and *happily* in their blockaded ghettos, but like the South African racists, these racists have only won temporarily and eventually lost because their temporary violent control was immoral. Easy for you in lovely Canada to declare "they have won".

>>Their history also is coming out of a grand desperation.

Atrocities can never be justified or explained. The Nazis too justified their acts in German desperation after WWI.

>>They won’t be racist, not any more than what we generally are, if they don’t feel threatened their mere existance day in and day out.

The south Africans always felt "threatened their mere existence". Anyone would if insisting on creating and maintaining an evil system based on lies and on displacing millions to make space for the chosen. Those Palestinians who followed your advice above to understand their enemy's fear and to accept them *as is* have not deliver peace, but only more walls and settelemets. Appeasing wrong only make more wrong.

>>This is not the official message of Islamic regime of Iran. It is the message of a Persian who knows how unhealthy it is to constantly feed from hatred. Persians lost to Arabs, fourteen hundred years ago. And they never quite got over it.

Even as an Iraqi who witnessed how the Islamic regime of Iran had helped the American occupation and destruction of my land, I must say that the Persians under this regime are at least *finally* taking steps to forget about that absurd feeling of defeat fourteen hundred years ago! I wonder if you *personally* have ever got over it, Bahnam.

-Saad

John Hudson's picture

Vladimir, thank you for the news from our friend Hassan. It is good to know that he is personally safe and in good morale, though the news of his cousin's family is devastating.

Saad: Appeasing wrong only make more wrong.

One aspect of the overall tragedy of the situation in Palestine is that 'hawks' -- those who want war -- on both sides characterise any compromise as 'appeasement'. So, the hawks in the Israeli Likud party called it appeasement when Sharon withdrew from Gaza and from south Lebanon. And they said that Hezbollah and Hamas would exploit this withdrawal to bring in more weapons, longer range rockets, to strike at Israeli towns and cities. And sadly, they were right: this is exactly what Hezbollah and Hamas did, just as they have always exploited every period of 'ceasefire' for the same purpose. [Although in the case of Gaza, Hamas not only used the withdrawal to prepare for more rocket attacks on Israel but also to launch an internal war against Fatah.]

So the vicious circle goes around again: the hawks on both sides feed each other's desire for war. Any compromise is seen as a weakness to be exploited and characterised as appeasement when the exploitation is realised.

William Berkson's picture

John, I am disappointed that here our Arab colleagues are not criticizing the extremists on their own side, as I have criticized and rejected those on the Jewish side--and the Israeli press indeed has a lot of questioning and criticism.

It reinforces my feeling that fanatic, self-destructive hatred of Israel by Arabs is the biggest obstacle to peace. The Israelis know they have to get out of the occupied territories; Sharon's aggressive and destructive fantasies are over--even Sharon knew that. But the fanatics on the Arab side who want to destroy the Israeli state still rage, and have a huge following.

Yesterday, on Shabbat I had a memorable experience when I saw the old retired Rabbi at our synagogue. He teased me, saying "Praying today? something must be weighing on your mind?" --He knows I like to study more than pray.

And I told him about this and the other thread, and those suffering in Gaza. He replied,

"I was there when we had no bullets. And I saw what happened."

He was referring to when he arrived at Auschwitz, and was separated from part of his family. He saw ovens across the fence, and said to another young man "That must be a bakery." And other young man, from Poland, said "No they are burning our families in those ovens." He couldn't believe it, and said to his friends from his small town: "Don't talk to those Poles; they are depressing." But he very soon found out that it was all too true. Most of his family, and Jews from his town, perished in those ovens.

He went on to say, "Do I grieve for the mothers who have lost children? Yes, absolutely. Do I grieve for Hamas? No. To defend yourself is a good thing." By the way, he has 40 relatives who have been running from Hamas rockets in southern Israel, for years.

The demand here that Israeli Jews give up their bullets--which is what the demand to give up control of a state amounts to--is not going to happen willingly. Land can and will be compromised, but not that. Too many remember what happened when we didn't have any bullets.

Saad Abulhab's picture

John wrote:

>>when Sharon withdrew from Gaza and from south Lebanon.

Actually, Israel did not withdraw from South Lebanon voluntarily. They were forced out after 20 years of bloody occupation that included a lot of massacres. As for Gaza, Israel did not really withdraw, they had a plan: leave the area as a large prison/Ghetto and blockade it until they surrender and accept the reality of loosing their homeland. Could Gaza, a great port from Biblical times, use its shores to trade with the world after that so-called withdrawal? How about the west bank, why haven't they make peace there?

>>Hamas not only used the withdrawal to prepare for more rocket attacks on Israel but also to launch an internal war against Fatah.

Hamas won the election that Israel put as a condition to proceed with peace negotiation. Immediately after that election, Israel announced that they would not talk peace until Hamas is forced out, then pressured and supported Fatah to overthrow them by force. Unfortunately Fatah cooperated. There are Zulus in all nations!

John, I do not deny there are extreme Palestinian elements who would not accept less than expelling all Zionists, but the absolute majority of the Palestinians (including Hamas) are not extremest. They have accepted the hard reality, and only want to live with dignity in the homeland where they have lived for long centuries. There is really no room for hawkish politics here. As a British I am sure you are fully aware the Palestinian Issue from 1917 on.

William wrote:

>>I am disappointed that here our Arab colleagues are not criticizing the extremists on their own side, as I have criticized and rejected those on the Jewish side

I really consider myself very realist and very moderate. I had never called for the the expulsion of the Israeli people and would criticize extremists who adapt such ideology. On the contrary, I believe all world Jews have a legitimate human need to live in Palestine as their "promised" land. But I equally beleive *ALL* Palestinians have the same human rights to stay in their undisputed homeland. Any peaceful solution not full-filling the rights of both people is an extreme solution which would never succeed.

-Saad

AzizMostafa's picture

Illegal non-Arab Immigrants (Criminals according to the Laws) must leave Palestine first, learn how to read+write Arabic language, then they could apply for Migration to Palestine. Definitely, the peace-loving would pass + the blood-thirsty would be bypassed.

Vladimir Tamari's picture

behnam wrote Tell your compatriots you lost, they won. Many years ago. Get over it.
Excuse me behnam, but the people of Gaza hardly feel they lost. The mere fact of having survived as a people united facing the onslaught of Israel, a country with more than a hundred atomic bombs and a military machine to match is victory enough. On another level you are partly right, they lost-'they' the Palestinians, the Israelis, the Americans and all of us in this world that will have to pay the price of this madness for generations to come.

John wrote So the vicious circle goes around again: the hawks on both sides feed each other’s desire for war. Any compromise is seen as a weakness to be exploited and characterised as appeasement when the exploitation is realised.
John, do not forget the third parties- the players outside the region that are happy to see a destabilized Arab world susceptible to invasion and the exploitation of its oil reserves. I think it is more than warmongers who block a solution. The Israelis in power have never undertook a realistic self-examination of the cost to the Palestinians of the creation of Israel and taken steps to reach a really just compromise solution. Having the military might of their own and of the US they felt entitled to overlook our just need for nationhood, sovereignty over our land including Jerusalem as granted by countless UN resolutions, many vetoed by the US alone. Not to mention the many other issues that are side swept by yet another Israeli military adventure. Yes the Arabs have their hawks and warmongers and the stupids, to coin a word, but all our doves have been discredited by the lack of a basic collective Israeli wish to make amends for their crimes against the Palestinians as a people and nation.

William wrote And I told [my rabbi] about this and the other thread, and those suffering in Gaza. He replied,“I was there when we had no bullets. And I saw what happened.”
Exactly what the Palestinians in Gaza who faced the blitzkrieg of the Israeli warplanes and tanks must be thinking, William! I do not want to go into the military balance of Israel vs. Gaza, such as it is, but it is a question of history repeating itself. The children of the Holocaust have now become the new Nazis of the Middle East, But while the victims of the Holocaust are justly honored in films, museums, and countless other ways, it is disingenuous of you to try to present their case to us Arabs at a time when the blood of the thousands of innocent victims of Israeli power, a third of them children, has hardly dried. The Palestinians are not responsible for the Holocaust in Europe and knew nothing of it till it was over. But anyway it is an ill wind that blows no good. Welcome to this thread of the Arabic special Interest group of Typophile. One day through dialogue a solution to this mess will be found and the sooner the better. By the way some time ago I looked at your website and noticed you have a problem because the beautiful illuminated border does not expand properly to fit the page at all resolutions. I had an idea how it might be fixed, but for a Palestinian question of the expansion of borders is not such an easy matter! :)

AzizMostafa's picture

@ William wrote And I told [my rabbi] about this and the other thread, and those suffering in Gaza. He replied,“I was there when we had no bullets. And I saw what happened.”

@ Vladimir wrote The Palestinians are not responsible for the Holocaust in Europe and knew nothing of it till it was over.

Vladimir, the good rabbi did not tell William that?!

Vladimir Tamari's picture

Aziz wrote Vladimir, the good rabbi did not tell William that?!
No but the the Holocaust has been always invoked to distract attention from the crimes of Israel against the Palestinians, and to pile feelings of guilt on people who are innocent of that older crime, to make them support Israel. "Look how the Jews suffered, for 2000 years...in WWII." The immediate question now is "Look how the Palestinians are suffering right now at the hands of Israeli Jews!". Nobody realistically can make Israel disarm willingly or unwillingly as William suggests some are- as if that was the question!! It is a question of changing its attitude, one that has given the atmosphere for desperation and fanaticism to grow and multiply among the Palestinians. The PLO in its time did not recognize Israel's right to exist, and then in a negotiated peace agreement it did. We got nothing in return but more settlements and humiliation and occupation. Hamas grew as a result of those failures to achieve a just peace.

AzizMostafa's picture

@ The rabbi replied,“I was there when we had no bullets. And I saw what happened.”

Vladimir, and the good rabbi did not tell William why+how they had smuggled bullets into Palestine?!

Saad Abulhab's picture

Vladimir wrote:

>>The children of the Holocaust have now become the new Nazis of the Middle East,

Let me Quote from memoirs of Harry Truman (yet unpunished for his crimes in Hiroshima and Nagasaki) who escalated the Palestinian tragedy by forcing the partition of Palestine in 1948, after listening to pleas from his slick American Jewish boyhood friend!!!!:

“I fear very much that the Jews are like all underdogs. When they get on the top they are just as intolerant and cruel as the people were to them when they were underneath. I regret this situation very much because my sympathy has always been on their side.”

>>The PLO in its time did not recognize Israel’s right to exist, and then in a negotiated peace agreement it did. We got nothing in return but more settlements and humiliation and occupation. Hamas grew as a result of those failures to achieve a just peace.

The PLO did not recognize Israel as a racist system (but recognized the Israeli people right to exist and live peacefully). Their deadly crime against their own people was when they gave up and did recognize Israel "as is" (in comparison, Madella refused to compromise principles!) As Dr. Edward Sa'id and many others observed then, this *unprincipled* appeasement would encourage Israel to be more Israel not peaceful Israel, and would not get the Palestinians an inch of land. Lets face it, if one believes this is a *god-given* land why would one give it up! Appeasement is a term about aggressors and occupiers, not about their victims. Before this round of slaughter in Gaza, and *during* the six month truce accepted by Hamas, Israel killed 120 Palestinians (not counting those died as a result of the blockade) compared to 1200 after the truce was not renewed by Hamas! Can anyone see a difference?

-Saad

-Saad

Saad Abulhab's picture

Aziz Wrote:

>>Illegal non-Arab Immigrants (Criminals according to the Laws) must leave Palestine first, learn how to read+write Arabic language, then they could apply for Migration to Palestine.

The children and grandchildren of the illegal settlers, brought by the British after their occupation in 1917 and thereafter, are innocents and have full legal rights to stay in Palestine *peacefully* side by side *all* Palestinians.

-Saad

Saad Abulhab's picture

Vladimir wrote:

>>Excuse me behnam, but the people of Gaza hardly feel they lost.

Winning and losing in Gaza is not different than winning and loosing in similar conflicts throughout history. You win when you refuse to surrender. Stalingrad, Fallujah, Qana, Jenin, Ramallah, Hanoi, Algiers, Muhammarah, .. etc, were all completely destroyed but won. History repeats itself. Fortunately, in modern days, one can let pictures alone speak:

http://arabetics.com/public/compare.pdf

-Saad

AzizMostafa's picture

> The children and grandchildren of the illegal settlers, brought by the British after their occupation in 1917 and thereafter, are innocents and have full legal rights to stay in Palestine *peacefully* side by side *all* Palestinians.

... as long as they conduct themselves peacefully as Palestines, not Israels, as immigrants, not governors?!

Peace with Flowers

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