Double o's with two different shapes (not ligatures)

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Eben Sorkin's picture
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Joined: 22 Jan 2004 - 4:19pm
Double o's with two different shapes (not ligatures)
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Recently I was reading the double o ligature thread here:

http://typophile.com/node/53052

And I couldn't help thinking "okay cool, but what I really want to see is examples a double where they are different - and are not ligatures." The example doesn't have to be typographic. In fact, it is likely not to be.

So here is my request : do you have faves? If so post them please. I am interested to what if any patterns might emerge. Thanks!

Triple & quad examples also most welcome! And other letters eg. double a, y , g etc too if you like.

Florian Hardwig's picture
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Joined: 18 Feb 2007 - 6:41am
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I’m afraid this is not exactly what you are after: Two unintentionally different letters ‘S’

Jos Buivenga's picture
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Joined: 19 Nov 2005 - 5:11pm
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First thing that came into my mind was the g g of Mrs Eaves.

Eben Sorkin's picture
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Joined: 22 Jan 2004 - 4:19pm
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Florian, that is a very very funny image but yes, not quite what I had in mind. Jos, thanks!

BTW, the examples don't have to be typographic they could be written or painted etc... I had better make that clear in the first post.

Simon Daniels's picture
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Joined: 11 Apr 2002 - 6:37pm
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>do you have faves?

Anything set in Local Gothic :-)

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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As a frequent 'control letter' in terms of proportion and spacing, and with no protuberances such as extenders or in/exit strokes, o isn't a letter I would consider varying except within a specific word shape, e.g. in a logo.

Eben Sorkin's picture
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Joined: 22 Jan 2004 - 4:19pm
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John, I am almost 100% certain you are right about the "o". But it would be fun to be proven wrong somehow even if it is quite profoundly unlikely. And then there are all the other non control sort of letters.

Si, Nice one!

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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I did experiment a while ago with narrower variants of a e o u for use when doubled in African orthographies to indicate long vowels; these would be used contextually when a vowel is doubled:

{a e o u} -> {a.narrow e.narrow o.narrow u.narrow}
| {a a.narrow e e.narrow o o.narrow u u.narrow}

But the effect has to be so subtle in order not to stand out that it didn't seem worthwhile, and I'm not convinced there is any benefit.

Eben Sorkin's picture
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Joined: 22 Jan 2004 - 4:19pm
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Wow, that's great that you tried it though. BTW - Does Latin have any words with a double "o"? I will have to find an searchable dictionary of Latin to see.

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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Does Latin have any words with a double “o”?

Very few. You get compounds along the 'cooperation' line: cooperio, cooptatio, coopto, etc. These are usually seen with hyphens, though, to emphasise that the oo represents two vowels sounds, not one.

Doubled vowels in Latin are always pronounced independently. In ecclesiastical pronunciation, this extends to foreign names so, for instance, Aaron is pronounced A-aron (something which become obvious as soon as one encounters it in Gregorian chant notation).

David Berlow's picture
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004 - 6:31pm
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"The example doesn’t have to be typographic. In fact, it is likely not to be."
?
I am, however, delighted to point out the technical name for the g alternative in Mrs. Eves, a "wild front ear."

Cheers!

Frode Bo Helland's picture
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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"Cöoperation," as The New Yorker writes it.

Jason Pagura's picture
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006 - 6:19pm
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“Cöoperation,” as The New Yorker writes it.

They do it that way? I thought the dieresis went over the second vowel when indicating a syllable break between them, like in "naïve".

Steve Peter's picture
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Joined: 8 May 2004 - 11:00am
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Surely it's coöperation.

Jason Pagura's picture
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006 - 6:19pm
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I suppose without the dieresis, "cooperation" refers to the process of barrel making? Do the editors of The New Yorker really think their readers will make that presumption?

Frode Bo Helland's picture
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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I got it all wrong. Will go back to my barrel and sleep some more.

Eben Sorkin's picture
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Joined: 22 Jan 2004 - 4:19pm
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It's just the geek in me but I love "coöperation".

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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The coopers' union resists the effort to coöpt their members.

Eben Sorkin's picture
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Joined: 22 Jan 2004 - 4:19pm
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John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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Or Finnish. But I don't think handwriting counts because variation is intrinsic to the medium: it is not that one instance of a letter is being made deliberately different from another instance but that all the instances express a range of variation.