Untitled Sans

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Frode Bo Helland's picture
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
Untitled Sans
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Here's something I've been cooking up. The working title is "Noget". I need some fresh eyes to see what I can't.

Frode Bo Helland's picture
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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Victor Curran's picture
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008 - 3:34pm
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Nice. Just two ideas:

  • If you're thinking about text composition as well as display, will the tails on the a and u be distracting in full paragraphs? They're the only decorative flourishes in an otherwise rather austere design, and they might create an inconsistency in spacing (gh will set closer than ah, nn will set closer than un).
  • To my not-so-fresh-anymore eyes, the top and bottom of the bowl on b look thinner and more tapered than the corresponding strokes on g.
  • Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Actually, the tails fill in pretty neat in small sizes, but I am considering leaving it on the u. Not sure about the a. It's a very important letter to me, also the notch and the tail is a signature result of the technique and tools (a flat nibbed pen ran twice, first vertically, then horisontally). I'll look into b/g.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    I'm still in Illustrator, so don't pay attention to the spacing.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    The first post has an updated pdf.

    Matthew Stephen Stuckwisch's picture
    Joined: 7 Feb 2007 - 10:21am
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    Hrm, if you're going to use the flourish on the d and the a, I'd probably make the j and r also use it and possibly the f, or at least see how they'd look with it. The r as it is now looks a bit clipped at the join compared to the m, n, and p, although all of them seem a bit slim. The q on th eother hand looks great.

    Maybe for the a (before doing other changes mentioned above), if you move over the join for the tail a little to the bottom left and then pull down more for the curve on the bowl. Right now, it feels like it's been pushed way over to the right. Something more like this (I didn't touch the bowl in this):

    «El futuro es una línea tan fina que apenas nos damos cuenta de pintarla nosotros mismos». (La Luz Oscura, por Javier Guerrero)

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Top post updated. Thanks for commenting the a, Matt. I made it slightly less dramatic. It works better but still keeps it's spirit.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Playing a little more around with the curves in h m u n r.

    paul d hunt's picture
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    Joined: 5 May 2005 - 8:44pm
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    i'm only going to make one statement at this point and that is that your curves seem inconsistent. whereas the curve-to-straight portions of the h, m, n, u seem to have a certain speed and tension, the curves in a, e, o, s feel much more relaxed and easy. before going further, you should try to reconcile these two elements with each other. that is my own personal view.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Paul, thanks for responding! Are you suggestion more of a typical grotesque h m n u r curve?

    I started out with a pretty clear concept based on some sketches I did and the method described earlier. The curve-to-straight thing was in there right from the start and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable moving so far away from what I first intended.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Here's something!

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    And the construction of the first n, to compare.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Check the latest pdf!

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    I think b and g need a similar treatment as well, and it begs the question: Am I loosing to much of the original style?

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Binocular g and a new b in the latest attachment in the first post.

    Steve Peter's picture
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    Joined: 8 May 2004 - 11:00am
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    The new g looks nice, indeed. The a continues to catch the eye, though.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Thanks speter, I'll probably figure out the a sooner or later. I did a brand new g, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hazzle posting it with little to none response.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
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    paul d hunt's picture
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    the curves seem to harmonize better now. the split stroke at the tail-join of the a is confusing to me-it doesn't seem to follow any of your usual typeface logic, but perhaps you meant it that way? in any case, the join would be improved if you moved it even slightly more towards the bowl of the a. the spine of the s is incredibly wonky, especially as it thins noticeably through the middle. the k feels static to me. most likely it's just the angles-they don't seem to jive quite right. i like the g, i might make the upper loop larger and the lower smaller, but that may just be my own personal taste.

    Dan Gayle's picture
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    Joined: 17 May 2006 - 7:00pm
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    Is it just me, or does the g seem to have a slightly different weight than the rest? Maybe it seems that the contrast doesn't vary as much....

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    I'll see if can illustrate the drawing of the a later. It's unusual, but works like a charm in small sizes. I have several versions of the g with a larger head, but decided to go with a smaller one. Just taste, I guess.

    Dan Gayle's picture
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    Joined: 17 May 2006 - 7:00pm
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    I think the lopsided g ads character. Taste is good :)

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    A couple of new k's.


    The a drawing.

    And the pdf is updated in the first post.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Sindre Bremnes's picture
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    Joined: 11 Nov 2008 - 9:32am
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    This is coming along nice, though I'd like to see a little more invention in the upper case, it looks perhaps a little bland compared to quirkiness of the lower case. I wonder if the round shapes are a little anemic compared to the straight stems? It's hard to tell from the parts-generated letters in the pdf, but I think there might be some weight-discrepancy all over. That might actually work on a face like this, but I'd look into it.

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Thanks, Sindre. Blodfattig? Hehe.

    Hrant H Papazian's picture
    Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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    I'm sorry, but you need to get rid of those arrows, like yesterday.

    hhp

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    What arrow do you mean, Hrant?

    Hrant H Papazian's picture
    Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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    In your second and third posts of 3/16.

    hhp

    Frode Bo Helland's picture
    Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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    Yeah, I was planning on doing a display version with the arrows. Good thing you convinced me otherwise! :p

    Matthew Stephen Stuckwisch's picture
    Joined: 7 Feb 2007 - 10:21am
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    Is it just me (or my computer) or are some of the longer stems a good bit thicker than shorter stems? Like the j and the alt-j, the straight one looks chunkier. Maybe it's just my eyes plying tricks on me with the way the semi-serifs are placed in there making a sequence like "un" feel like the middle two stems have different widths at the top and bottom. Not necessarily a critique, just be aware.

    I echo Dan about the g, although I think it might have the same weight as most of the others, but the e and o and f to me seem a bit thin. The R looks somewhat anemic, but what might work better is to lengthen out the P R E F characters, which have a lot smaller horizontal width, so maybe make them as wide as the V or N might help.

    Also you P and R have quite distinct bowls on to, is this intentional or just testing two types? If so the one you've got on the R is the one to go with.

    «El futuro es una línea tan fina que apenas nos damos cuenta de pintarla nosotros mismos». (La Luz Oscura, por Javier Guerrero)

    Hrant H Papazian's picture
    Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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    Frode, I was trying to convince you to not
    think of typographic letterforms as being
    built up with any directionality. Because
    that can only reduce their functionality,
    especially for text.

    hhp