Swash composition help

Okay, so I'm revamping this logo a bit and would love some assistance in creating a logo that has a bit more of a properly swashing capital letter "B".
It's all in illustrator and was began from scratch in 2007.
There it sat, finished enough for production.
Yesterday i figured it needed updating.
I've enjoyed the changes so far, but the initial swash on the B is bugging me.

If you have any tips on getting it right, ANY comments would be appreciated.
(I've used minimal bezier points forever, so that is my underlying style. Extra points dirty up the curves in my humble opinion.)

Initial design: 2007

Idea going forward (not sold on the HIGH-water "B":

Compared:

Thanks,
Luke

Miss Tiffany's picture

Couldn't there be overlap instead of total separation?

And I think the new r is a little to heavy and/or prominent.

Miss Tiffany's picture

And I think the u is coming too close to the swash. Because I would think you'd want the same space relation (white space) as you have with the e. As it is now, the white space is more filled in.

richard-young's picture

On the whole, I'm a fan of the revision. The new B is classy but the top aperture is now possibly a gnats too tight & laterally squashed? R's gone too far away from the E - personally I prefer the original R.

And maybe it's just me, but the baseline of the 'utte' look like it's rotated clockwise slightly, falling away bottom right - the new height of the U now giving me the illusion that the E looks lower than the U (and closer to LABEL).

Love the new roundness to the tops of the Ts and U.

It's not really any of my business though, so make of that what you will, sir.

luxuryluke's picture

Thanks, Tiffany and Richard.

The "r" is a bit "out there". And I do prefer the original "r".
Yes, the top aperture of the "B" is squashed. Great point. Staring at this for too long. ;)
The "u" is too tall, but it filled in the space nicely, despite there being no necessity to do so. Bringing it back down in line with the "e" is the smart thing to do.
Thank you both.

What do you think of the spur? Is it too much? I kind of like how it safely lines up with the second bowl line…

richard-young's picture

The spur on the B? Yeah - I love it - it's a keeper. It's stuff like that which makes the difference - it's a really delightful, thoughtful detail that definitely works. Also, didn't say before, but I really dig the slight rework on the E.

Miss Tiffany's picture

I'm usually safe, but I wonder if the spur is necessary? Or if you could create another similar shape elsewhere?

luxuryluke's picture

Great points!
Well, it's going through quite a bit of refinement.
I'll post again here when there's a postable update.
Thank you both very much!

luxuryluke's picture

Sorry it's been so long since an update.
The mark was finished early March and here it is, for the record.
Shirts, buttons, business cards and other assorted items were made for handing out and sharing with friends and interested parties at SXSW2010 and was, from what we could tell, a mild success for a logo revision.

In short:

# the points were softened and rounded.
# the entire shape rotated 5º to encourage the old scripty feel of brush (hopefully)
# the spur was dropped. too out there.
# the internal letters received a curvy arch treatment, hopefully subtle enough not to notice, but it changed, to be sure.
# the leg on the "r" was tweaked, once to be more geometric, but that wasn't sensible, either.
# the "B" now intersects itself, but other solutions didn't work as well. our self-imposed deadline nixed any more changes on it.
# "LABEL" was dropped, despite it being a large part of the identity, considering my packaging background, it narrowed the identity to that alone and was confusing in other usages. Label is still part of the company name, though (which is probably confusing).

Comments are still very welcome and appreciated. Thanks everyone.

richard-young's picture

Top drawer stuff - love the finished article. The Butter t-shirts I've seen dotted about that there interwebs recently... will they be made available to the general public?

PabloImpallari's picture

Hi Like:
I love it!!! It's beautifull
The only change i can suggest, is that the 'e' may need a little more adjustments maybe...

Stephen Rapp's picture

I agree about adjusting the e also. With the angle of the bottom loop of e and the long upstroke to the cursive r its almost like having 2 very thin upstrokes mirroring each other near the end. I would try making a regular short loop for the e and have the t connect into the base of e just like u to t. It doesn't need to look like everything is one continuous line. That would balance it all out better as well.

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