to whom it may concern....CS5 released

omar's picture

Adobe has released its creative suite 5 today, as for me I'll be playing around with my good ol' CS3

http://www.adobe.com/nl/products/creativesuite/?sdid=GLWRJ&

Northbay's picture

Participate in the online launch here:
http://cs5launch.adobe.com/?promoid=FDKBR

pw's picture

Anyone heard anything about which fonts that are included in CS5?

blank's picture

I will give Adobe credit; the new features in CS5 are far more exciting than CS4. But not compelling enough to justify those high upgrade costs. If they want to keep releasing software at this pace the upgrade prices need to come down and they need to stop bundling junk like Bridge and Acrobat into the suites!

BeauW's picture

James,

That's the thing about the Suite- it covers so many different workflows, and not all of them will be relevant to you.
I use Since CS3 I use bridge constantly for organizing and adding metadata to my resources.
Acrobat too. Nearly every project I work on, I rely on Acrobat for communicating with clients and off-site co-workers.
On the other hand, I've never even opened up Fireworks.

Nick Sherman's picture

Any reports on new typographic features, other than the column-splitting paragraphs? Em-based linespacing? Contextual paragraph styles? Glyph palette in Photoshop? Maybe even a consistent set of palettes / controls across all apps?

I didn't see anything right away featured on the Adobe site, but I admittedly didn't look very hard.

blank's picture

That's the thing about the Suite- it covers so many different workflows, and not all of them will be relevant to you.

This is 2010. We have digital distribution channels. Adobe should be utilizing all that awesome technology to let me cook up a downloadable suite that’s relevant to my workflow. Especially if they want me to upgrade every other year (which comes with costs that go beyond the software itself).

Si_Daniels's picture

Unless the UI features a bit red "LAZY" button, I'm not interested in upgrading. :-)

henrypijames's picture

I'm interested in typographical features, too -- in fact I asked that question when InDesign CS4 was coming out. Back then, a few people from Adobe were willing and able to provide, I hope this time, too.

Theunis de Jong's picture

This is 2010. We have digital distribution channels. Adobe should be utilizing all that awesome technology to let me cook up a downloadable suite that’s relevant to my workflow.

That's an excellent suggestion, James. InDesign is built around a 'system kernel', and almost everything else you see -- interface, mouse handling, panels, text flow, import and export caps -- is handled by a separate plugin.

I'm not sure if it's possible at present to simply remove any plugin whose features you don't need -- perhaps the program won't start, or crash -- but surely they could have the start-up be a bit more intelligent and "use" only the plugins you require -- and bought:

"Can I order one ID, bookies suite -- hold the Flash Export and Animation Timeline."

Nick Sherman's picture

For what it's worth, there's a pretty in-depth review on the Print blog.

They mention Flash's new type rendering engine that can handle OpenType layout, but there doesn't seem to be much new in the way of improvements for typography otherwise.

Hopefully more encouraging reports will come out over the following weeks. I'm growing tired of superfluous new features, like the the fact that "you can now manage .MP3 files in InDesign".

aluminum's picture

Ha! Good one! MP3s in InDesign. ;o)

Oh...wait...that *is* a new feature.

Umm, yea, that sounds like scraping the barrel of New Feature Bullet Points.

I don't think I want MP3s in my InDesign!

blank's picture

Umm, yea, that sounds like scraping the barrel of New Feature Bullet Points.

The sound/interactive/etc. features in Indesign could be quite cool. I could actually enjoy doing layout for interactive digital magazines for tablets if I didn’t have to deal with the Flash interface, actionscript, etc. But this all depends on PC makers finally getting it together in the tablet space, and right now we have something like ten years of evidence to suggest that they haven’t got a clue how to pull off a usable tablet. If the PC makers can’t keep Flash relevant it won’t matter, because something else we have pretty clear evidence of is that Adobe’s executives don’t know how to beat Steve Jobs in a software war. I won’t be at all surprised if the feature set for Indesign CS6 revolves around building that stuff for HTML5/CSS3.

Theunis de Jong's picture

MP3s? Sure -- but only if you can print them in a high enough quality for offset printing. It won't work on your laser printer.

Oh wait -- they must have read on Typophile about that Sound Font that was made from sound waves! (Can't locate it anymore -- sorry.)

Aaron Thesing's picture

I just upgraded to CS4 in July.
I'm holding out until I know if there is a nifty new pro opticals font, and if there is a registration incentive font.
Fingers crossed for Hypatia Sans.

Igor Freiberger's picture

Surely, ID CS5 is lacking some important and much needed improvements, as endnotes, better footnotes, named stylistic sets, sidebar texts –to name a few. But the animation features are very interesting –and not just for tablets.

I can remember a dozen newspapers and publications which went online with page transitions after ID CS4 included this feature. A small newspaper from a small city in my country used this and increased its ad income (as any ad also gets web dissemination).

Now, it's possible to build whole web articles inside ID, including zoomed in/out photos and captures. I consider this extremely useful for instructional and technical materials. And the SWFs maintain high typographical quality.

An example: I know two printed technical reviews with huge financial problems. They would like to go online and survive. But to publish PDFs on the web causes some problems: it's less atractive to most people, the Reader bars takes part of browser view and a PDF could be shared easily, makng piracy very easy. To publish through SWF in an subscription-based site is a great idea to them.

Besides the animation features, the span/split columns is really great. And the vertically justified text in non-rectangular frames is also very welcome. For me, it's a well worth upgrade, although Adobe's prices are intimidating.

Nick Shinn's picture

Aaron, will you buy my fonts if I throw in a Th lig?

Nick Shinn's picture

How about if I also include a free page layout application?

Aaron Thesing's picture

The "Th" lig is not a deal-breaker, and at least once a month I gaze longingly at Paradigm Pro..I could just spend that $600 on other fonts...

First things first: I must get $600.

blank's picture

This is interesting: Wired is reporting that CS5 has some capability to convert Flash animations to canvas elements. Way cool.

charles ellertson's picture

My biggest complaint is that we get new, expensive releases of InDesign, but old bugs remain. There are bugs we reported -- and were acknowledged -- with CS2, particularly the dictionary -- that are still present in CS4. Hyphenation, after all, is one part of H&J, and good H&J is pretty basic to any layout program.

I'm not sure if it's possible at present to simply remove any plugin whose features you don't need -- perhaps the program won't start, or crash Yup. Crash to the point where you have to reinstall the program. I'll grant that it is a chore to test the program with the various operating systems, but Jeez, that's a part of selling software.

You aren't supposed to use obscenities. Should I say I'm miffed? & I'll allow I'm being a curmudgeon, but aren't bug-fixes to basic functions more important than new features?

JamesM's picture

> old bugs remain...particularly the dictionary

Just curious, what dictionary bugs are you referring to?

blank's picture

Should I say I'm miffed? & I'll allow I'm being a curmudgeon, but aren't bug-fixes to basic functions more important than new features?

No, and from what I can tell, improving the functionality of existing features that barely work isn’t, either. How cool would it be if the optical margin feature actually offered some options to make it usable with the vast majority of type that look like crap when A and T start hanging out into the margin?

aluminum's picture

" but aren't bug-fixes to basic functions more important than new features?"

They are more important to consumers. Not at all important to Adobe's marketing department.

nina's picture

"How cool would it be if the optical margin feature actually offered some options to make it usable with the vast majority of type that look like crap when A and T start hanging out into the margin?"

Amen.
Things like this to me would be infinitely more interesting than the vast majority of the "new" and "hot" and "exciting" stuff they've been adding. The hype is so tiring.

BeauW's picture

It looks like Illustrator has the 'Live Pen'. (They call it Variable Stroke). That will be great for drawing glyphs. Or playing around with ideas for scripts.

JamesM's picture

> aren't bug-fixes to basic functions
> more important than new features?

I once heard the lead programmer for a major application talk about this. He said that in a perfect world they'd always fix every bug, but in the real world there's always more work to do than time and budgets permit, so everything gets prioritized.

For some bugs it becomes an equation like "should we add new feature X which will help increase sales, or should we spend that time fixing several bugs which are annoying but aren't bad enough to affect sales much?". And the new feature wins.

dezcom's picture

"should we add new feature X which will help increase sales, or should we spend that time fixing several bugs which are annoying but aren't bad enough to affect sales much?"

To me, they affect purchases by me. Adobe should fix the stuff that is really used and forget adding useless bloat--they could at least make opentype equally usable in all their so-called "Suite".

blank's picture

…they could at least make opentype equally usable in all their so-called "Suite".

To make that worthwhile they would actually have to evangelize OpenType to the huge number of designers who don’t even know what it is.

dezcom's picture

if you build it, they will come

charles ellertson's picture

Just curious, what dictionary bugs are you referring to?

We've reported several over the years. The ones that are currently driving us nuts (who knows what tomorrow will bring!) are:

1. You can't directly enter a word with an apostrophe (the PREFERRED apostrophe, U+2019) in the exception dictionary. No matter what you do, the apostrophe winds up U+0027. So, when a word with an apostrophe (U+2019) is encountered in the text, the word isn't found in the exception dictionary, and the basic Proximity UDC patters are followed. You can enter words with U+2019 using a script, but what a nuisance!

2. There is a bug in the Paragraph > Hyphenation panel when you use the document dictionary. Specifically, you have to say "3" in the "After First" box, to get ID to allow a hyphen after 2 letters. The inverse for the "Before Last." If you want to require three letters to come down, you have have to enter a "2". That is, to require two letters to remain on a line and three letters to come down, the First/Last setting has to be 3/2. BUT: Should you encounter a word not in the document dictionary, ID revers to the Proximity UDC dictionary, which does honor exactly what is in the Paragraph>Hyphenation setting. So, if you don't have "because" in your document dictionary, and if you set the Hyphenation panel for 3/2, "because" won't be hyphenated.

Etc. Discovering bugs is no fun, documenting them to report them even less fun -- esp. when they are never fixed!

Igor Freiberger's picture

Charles,

I'm using ID since version 1.0 (both English and Portuguese versions, always on Windows) and these bugs you described never occurred with me.

ID accepts and differentiates apostrophe (U0027) and single right quote (U2019) in the Ignored Words option without any problem. And in Portuguese we use justified text with hyphenation most of the time, and ID always did exactly what I set up in Hyphenation settings.

I did capture the screens:

Dictionary > Ignored Words

.
Hyphenation options for a paragraph

.
I thought this would be a problem related to another language version of ID, but for CS4 this is hardly true as any ID installation has all language versions internally included (you can change the UI language simply editing a Windows registry line).

Maybe this would be a Mac-only issue?

charles ellertson's picture

Igor, it is possibler that everything works with the Mac -- we've been using Windows since CS2 (Windows XP & now Vista). We have had trouble with hyphenation all along. Some of it was due to our utilities, but some was Adobe bugs, written up, submitted, and acknowledged. With possessives I don't have an example at hand, but it does happened. Still, with your input, I will check again tomorrow to see if we can get a word with U+2019, entered by hand, in the exception dictionary

As to the number of hyphens -- are you using the document dictionary (one that is embedded in the file), or just the Proximity UDC? It is only when both are at play that the conflict rears it's head, though the "lie" is always needed with the document dictionary.

* * *

With CS2, we used to change the UDC with every job. It was a pain, but it did work. We extracted every word over five letters in a book's text, hyphenated them to taste, put them in the exception dictionary, then wrote off a new UDC. With that system, we could usually tell when ID went to the basic Proximity patterns. The downside was that if you forgot to install the different UDC's with their proper job, and if any recomposing occurred with another job's dictionary, you obviously got errors. Another downside was you couldn't give the files to anyone else -- say, the publisher -- because the hyphenation was dependent on that UDC. You could give them that too, but good luck teaching them how to install it. Use of a document dictionary solves this problem.

Igor Freiberger's picture

Your enviroment is distinct than mine. I never use embedded dictionaries because I'm always adding words to my UDCs –so the embedded one becomes outdated very quickly and may conflict with the UDC when there are words with different hyphenations in each one.

Surely, to get the UDC installed in third-party IDs would be a problem. Maybe you can create a simple batch (DOS) to copy the UDC file directly to the proper ID folder. It will not work if the user installs ID in a different path, but this is unusual. Another possibility is to send the UDC in a txt file and instruct the user to import it (CS3+ feature).

Although these ways will demand a user procedure, both are easier than manually copy the UDC files.

Why do you produce a new UDC for each job? There are different hyphenation criteria to each one?

I input the apostrophe through the keyboard and the single right quote with Alt+code.

charles ellertson's picture

I input the apostrophe through the keyboard and the single right quote with Alt+code.

Yes, this has always worked fine AS LONG AS you're working with the UDC. It is the *document dictionary* that changes 2019 to 0027. In fact, you can enter 2019 in a target word, when you hit "ADD," nothing happens. But if you close the panel, then open it back up, the word is there, but with 0027. Again, document dictionary exceptions only, sorry I was unclear.

As to simply using only the UDC instead of the document dictionary, we have what we feel valid reasons for using the document dictionary. But it is buggy.

evanbrog's picture

As far as PC's having usable, wanted tablets--

I was actually much more excited when I came across this...:

http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/microsoft-courier-tablet-...

...than I am about the iPad.

bowerbird's picture

> I was actually much more excited when I came across this..
> ...than I am about the iPad.

except things have to be _real_ for me to get excited by them.

-bowerbird

evanbrog's picture

That's neither here nor there...who knows. I don't, you don't.

But you don't get excited by concepts???????

blank's picture

But you don't get excited by concepts???????

Not Microsoft’s concepts. They’ve had a lot of interesting concepts over the years that have been big disappointments. Tablet PCs, Cleartype, Windows Vista, Windows for Smartphones, the Zune, I could go on. I would love to see Microsoft develop really great tablet hardware/OS to compete with Steve Job’s walled garden approach, but experience suggests holding my breath waiting would be deadly.

bowerbird's picture

evanbrog said:
> That's neither here nor there...who knows. I don't, you don't.

i _know_ that that's just a little video. it _looks_ interesting,
at least it _would_, if it were a _reality_, but it's just a video.

> But you don't get excited by concepts???????

concepts are very cool, yes... and even videos are cool...
as videos. so yes, that was a cool video. as a tool demo.

but that tool doesn't exist right now. it might never exist.

yet you're comparing it to the ipad, which _does_ exist...
right now. and is available for sale, right down the street.

moreover, if the tool shown in that video ever _does_ come
to exist, it will probably have lots and lots of offsetting flaws
-- because microsoft's products usually have lots of flaws --
which were not even _hinted_ at in that clever little video...

so no, i don't get excited by "videos", or even "concepts",
when they are being compared to a real, existing product.
there is no comparison between a video and a real product.

-bowerbird

evanbrog's picture

That may all be true. I'm not starting a PC-MAC battle!!!

There's no reason it can't be done better than what Apple just did. Obv. the real thing is better..in philosophy, the old "the thing than which there can be no greater," was the thing that actually existed.

I wont be getting an iPad anytime soon. But maybe I would consider something that used the stylus over the finger (that strikes the right cord for me as a creative). It would also be really interesting to see hand-writing recognition being translated in real-time into existing fonts.

That probably exists somewhere--anyone ever seen that? I imagine the experience of writing Frutiger (or any favorite font) would be such a great way to enjoy typography.

darkwolf29a1's picture

There have been a few nice features that I have seen for CS5. I am not sure that I would want to pay full price for them though. My only advantage there is that I do get the educational discount.

As for the whole tablet/PC/Mac thing... I own two Macs (Desktop and laptop) and as sooon as I can afford to upgrade my current one (3 years old) to a new desktop....I will. Why? Honestly, I have had WAY less problems with my Mac than I have ever had with a PC. I had enough issues that they forced me to buy a Mac, really. And now that I made that transition...I don't ever want to go back. Will I buy an iPad? Not likely. At least not until they make it function more like a laptop computer, i.e. I can install CS5 on it. :) Until then...it's just a big iPhone that I can't make phone calls on. LOL

pattyfab's picture

I do every other upgrade, it keeps the costs more manageable.

Oh and agree totally on the iPad. I am sure if I had one I'd find uses for it but I absolutely cannot justify spending the money. I also need to replace my iMac (it's pre-intel, the clock ticks) and upgrade CS.

bowerbird's picture

microsoft announced today the cancellation of the "courier",
their version of a tablet that they'd never actually promised.

it's hard to even get up any juice saying "i told you so"
when it comes to microsoft failing to live up to things.

-bowerbird

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