Arabic vs. Latin / Jawi vs. Rumi

AzizMostafa's picture

In reply to Quadibloc's comments here:
http://typophile.com/node/62515?page=1#comment-439607
I would like to start this new topic.

Worth visiting:
http://www.allempires.net/arabic-sript-vs-latin-cript_topic22545_page1.html

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GAMBUH.pdf107.46 KB
quadibloc's picture

I don't really want to try hard to defend the idea that the Latin script is inherently superior to the Arabic script.

It may seem that way to those of us who are used to the Latin script. That's because it is hard for us to learn, as the shapes of the different letters don't appear to us to be very distinct, at least in the initial and medial forms.

Obviously, though, a change in script means that people have to learn to read over again, at least in part, and it would seem that any small gains from a change would be negated by the massive cost of the changeover.

Incidentally, though, Indonesia, of course, has many non-Muslim citizens, such as on Bali, for whom the Arabic script has no special cultural significance. Are they expected to be conversant with the Malay language?

AzizMostafa's picture

1. The language of Malays + Indons is virtually the same?!
2. If written in Arabic, then
Bahasa Melayu = Jawi
Bahasa Indonesia = Arab Gundul
Bahasa Jawa = Pegon (See the newly attached file)
3. You are not blamed, but the INTELLECTUALS at M$.
I do not know where M$ discovered the 22 Arabic scripts?!

AzizMostafa's picture

@ That's because it is hard for us to learn, as the shapes of the different letters don't appear to us to be very distinct, at least in the initial and medial forms.

1. Basically, Arabic has only 17 letter forms + dots.
Medial forms = initial forms + short tails to the their right.
Final Forms = initial or Medial forms + longer tails to their left.
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Out of any Latin font, you can easily make ALL the Arabic letterforms as follows:
pick @ (as is) for ha,
pick iïî (as is) for N + t + Th respectively and v-flip them for B + Y + P,
pick o (as is) for Meem and centre one dot above for F,
pick ö (as is) for Qaf.
pick q (as is) for waw.
pick S for Kaf.
pick j (as is) for Z and remove the dot for R.
pick c (as is) for Ain and center one dot above for Gheen.
pick c + h-flip it for Dal and center one dot above for Zal.
pick b (as is) for T and center one dot above the round part for Zah.
pick V + rotate it 75 CCW for H and center 1 dot above for Kh. Or 1 dot below for geem.
pick D + rotate it 90 CCW for Sad and center one dot above for Zad.
pick E + rotate it 90 CCW for Seen and center 3 dots above for Sheen.
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2. Man reads words not letterforms?!

quadibloc's picture

Microsoft does not claim there are 22 Arabic scripts. However, countries that share the same script may have different options for representing the date and time; the internationalization settings in Windows control other things beside the script used.

It is true that practiced readers read single words by eye, but to get started, one needs to read the individual letters and sound out the word. Otherwise, alphabetic scripts would have no advantage over the Chinese writing system.

AzizMostafa's picture

1. Why Arabic [Mauritania], Arabic [Western Sahra] and Arabic [Sudan] are missing?!

2 Otherwise, alphabetic scripts would have no advantage over the Chinese writing system.

Can I say, applying the same logic of what you said earlier: if Chinese was changed over to a form of the Latin script, that would have partly facilitated the improvement in that country's literacy levels?!

quadibloc's picture

I think that, yes, the use of an alphabetic script would reduce the amount of time children would need to spend on learning to read and write in school, both in China and in Japan. This would decrease the economic cost of achieving a high level of literacy. That doesn't mean, of course, that a high level of literacy can't be achieved without that particular reform, as experience has shown.

AzizMostafa's picture

… and the the use of Jawi script would reduce the amount of time children would need to spend on learning to read and write in school, both in Malaysia + Indonesia?!

Latin has 34 letters = 26 +A+B+D+E+G+H+Q+R?
Whereas Jawi has virtually 17 letters.

AzizMostafa's picture

Quadibloc, now, I hope you come to understand that:

Shari'a , not only, does not diminish religious liberty, and the equality of people of all faiths, but it does encourage them to learn one another script as witnessed in Malaysia + Iran.

But a cunning + hidden political movement fool people away from their roots and did + does not allow them to choose even names as happened in Turkey + happening in Thailand + Indonesia. Worse, in some places, road signs with Arabic script are removed with the removal of historical villages + towns from the map?!

quadibloc's picture

I don't want to get into a discussion of politics here, because of course this is not the place for that. I had understood, though, that in Indonesia, people of Chinese ethnic origin were prevented from using Chinese names for quite some time. And, indeed, that did have nothing to do with Islam, but was due to the nationalism of the former regime there.

As for Shari'a, perhaps I do misunderstand what it is about. It is commonly believed in the West that this legal system puts non-Muslims at a disadvantage, and fails to provide women of all faiths with adequate recourse if they become victims of sexual assault. Is this belief truly in error?

.00's picture

"My girl is red hot"
"You're girl ain't doodley-squat"

AzizMostafa's picture

Quadibloc, How Can You Believe in That?
http://www.al-islam.org/reflectionsnewmuslim/4.htm
Thanks with Flowers

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