Matt, that Michael's example has pretty strange letter spacing, nothing like what I put in the typeface (original or updated), with or without kerning, or even Adobe's "optical" spacing! Caveat scriptor...
Santiago,
It was a feature I've seen on some Bodoni interpretations.
I liked it, but on a slab serif there was only room for it in the very lightest weights.
Similarly, I gave the lining dollar two vertical bars on the lightest weights, but only one elsewhere.
Some other letter forms change with weight:
This italic treatment is taken from Century. I used it before, in Worldwide.
**
Matt, always nice to see one's fonts in use, no matter how!
I never understand why some 'duhsigners' (TM. House Industries), feel the need to ruin perfectly good kerning with their own illogical nonsense. I have seen quite a few who put extra space after an r even though it is the character with the most space on the right side.
Yes, that's been pointed out before.
Quite a coincidence, as I've never been to the Czech Republic.
Once I had the basic rough concept (blackletter meets monoline hexagon), it pretty much drew itself -- although I softened the joints.
So I would imagine the designer of the lottery logo had the same experience.
That would account for the similarity of proportion in the execution.
There are many geometric constructions, though developed independently, are almost identical. That is the danger of strict geometry and use of regular forms and angles, if you are looking for uniqueness or originality.
Looks nicer than my sister's copy of a book of chocolate recipes. AFAICT, it's all set in Century Gothic. Monotype Century Gothic. Not a very choccy choice, IMAO. Mind, I get the feeling when looking through printed goods that things like Avant Garde are kind of 'in' up here in Incompetent-banker-land.
There are a couple of questions that I was expecting to be asked, but as nobody has done so, allow me:
Nick, why are there no italics for the extreme weights (Thin and Black)?
It would have been a lot of work, the Thin requiring much delicate drawing, and the Black being awkward to design/draw. And I reason that those weights would rarely if ever be licensed or used by designers.
Why are there no small caps, fractions, superiors and inferiors, in the Thin, Extra Light and Black weights?
Again, it would have been a lot of work, which I don't believe would ever have been used. These are "expert" features used in body text, so are not required in display weights.
***
Was I correct in my assumptions?
Is there no call for Thin italic or Black small caps?
My only question is in regards to pricing. I see on myfonts it is currently $245 with the promotion and $350 without it.
With the lack of weights/styles what justifies the pricing when I could purchase Archer with 25 Styles for $280 and get all the weights that weren't created for Bodoni Egyptienne or even spend $50 more when the Bodoni promotion ends and get all 40 styles of archer for $400.
14 styles of Bodoni Egyptienne for $245
25 styles of Archer for $280
It makes it hard to consider Bodoni when I am getting 11 additional weights for $35 with Archer.
I only bring this up because I am currently very seriously considering this purchase myself and I am having to decide between the two. When I hear a designer say "it would have been a lot of work", this makes me questions the overall integrity of the font. I am not so sure HFJ said the same thing when designing Archer and is this evidenced by the weights/styles available. It may be easier for me to justify spending that $35 and going with Archer even though this is such a new and beautiful font.
John’s reminder to dig into the licenses is a good one. Also keep it mind that # of fonts (weights/styles) isn't the only indicator of a family's value. There is also the matter of small caps, extra alternate glyphs, and language support.
When I hear a designer say "it would have been a lot of work", this makes me questions the overall integrity of the font.
Certainly, integrity may be defined as each font in a typeface family having exactly the same characters and features.
I sacrificed a little of that for what I considered increased utility. Rather than skimping on features and styles in some weights, please think of it as generosity in other weights :-)
When comparing weights, it's also useful to consider their range, not just their number.
Numbers rarely tell it all. These are easy to tally but but not really the indicator of quality. Anyone who needs the extra glyphs in the black weight can get them either through Nick or some other way.
13 Dec 2010 — 3:54pm
Amazing, Nick. I want this for Christmas!
14 Dec 2010 — 12:11am
Very nice! Congratulations, Nick.
14 Dec 2010 — 9:57am
An old favorite. http://www.flickr.com/photos/stewf/tags/type:face%3Dbodoniegyptian/
14 Dec 2010 — 10:10am
Great! Lovin' the bold caps =D
14 Dec 2010 — 10:52am
Nice update!
14 Dec 2010 — 4:21pm
On of the best ones i've ever seen! Good work, Nick!
15 Dec 2010 — 9:40am
saw this at Michael's (craft store) the other day
Excellent work Mr. Shinn
15 Dec 2010 — 10:03am
Mmm love that sexy leg on the R.
15 Dec 2010 — 10:31am
Thanks for the kind words.
Matt, that Michael's example has pretty strange letter spacing, nothing like what I put in the typeface (original or updated), with or without kerning, or even Adobe's "optical" spacing! Caveat scriptor...
15 Dec 2010 — 11:45am
Nick, this is beautiful and marvellous, you must be delighted!
15 Dec 2010 — 11:56am
absolutely beautiful! :-)
15 Dec 2010 — 3:21pm
I'm lovin' it, Nick! Congrats!
15 Dec 2010 — 2:20pm
You could do with a tea Chris ;^)
15 Dec 2010 — 2:28pm
LOL!!! Now I have to leave it just for the joke value!
15 Dec 2010 — 2:32pm
yeah, I didn't mean to post that photo just to show the horrible kerning.
Thats the designer's fault, not yours.
great stuff though. its nice to see it in simple shops like that.
15 Dec 2010 — 3:42pm
why just the Thin and Extra Ligh number "4" has serifed crossbar? was them a first version?
15 Dec 2010 — 7:19pm
Bravo! It is now my Christmas font (family)!
(Don't tell anybody that I already opened it...)
15 Dec 2010 — 7:26pm
Santiago,
It was a feature I've seen on some Bodoni interpretations.
I liked it, but on a slab serif there was only room for it in the very lightest weights.
Similarly, I gave the lining dollar two vertical bars on the lightest weights, but only one elsewhere.
Some other letter forms change with weight:
This italic treatment is taken from Century. I used it before, in Worldwide.
**
Matt, always nice to see one's fonts in use, no matter how!
**
Thanks Aaron!
16 Dec 2010 — 2:13am
I never understand why some 'duhsigners' (TM. House Industries), feel the need to ruin perfectly good kerning with their own illogical nonsense. I have seen quite a few who put extra space after an r even though it is the character with the most space on the right side.
16 Dec 2010 — 2:37am
Can't stop looking at it... Fine, Mr. Shinn!
16 Dec 2010 — 2:44am
Great new take on a classic. Great work, Nick!
16 Dec 2010 — 5:28am
16 Dec 2010 — 6:00am
When will this appear on the shinntype site?
16 Dec 2010 — 4:03pm
My site is languishing, I need to get some new help.
That's next on the agenda, now that this typeface is finished.
16 Dec 2010 — 4:44pm
How many hand does it take to run a one-man shop, Nick?
More than I have :-)
16 Dec 2010 — 9:58pm
"I made your eyes"
"If only you could have seen what I have seen with your eyes."
17 Dec 2010 — 6:26am
By the way, is that at the bottom your logo? It's awfully similar to this one:
17 Dec 2010 — 9:09am
Yes, that's been pointed out before.
Quite a coincidence, as I've never been to the Czech Republic.
Once I had the basic rough concept (blackletter meets monoline hexagon), it pretty much drew itself -- although I softened the joints.
So I would imagine the designer of the lottery logo had the same experience.
That would account for the similarity of proportion in the execution.
17 Dec 2010 — 9:43am
There are many geometric constructions, though developed independently, are almost identical. That is the danger of strict geometry and use of regular forms and angles, if you are looking for uniqueness or originality.
17 Dec 2010 — 10:28am
Looks like it's possible to set a whole book with nowt but this and have it come out perfectly readable.
17 Dec 2010 — 11:09am
http://www.amazon.com/Very-Merry-Cookie-Party-Christmas/dp/0811866750/re...
They managed with the original version, without small caps and the Fraction feature.
17 Dec 2010 — 12:51pm
Looks nicer than my sister's copy of a book of chocolate recipes. AFAICT, it's all set in Century Gothic. Monotype Century Gothic. Not a very choccy choice, IMAO. Mind, I get the feeling when looking through printed goods that things like Avant Garde are kind of 'in' up here in Incompetent-banker-land.
18 Dec 2010 — 8:47am
Well done, Nick! Finely crafted and very creative and useful to boot. Thanks for posting.
30 Dec 2010 — 11:10am
There are a couple of questions that I was expecting to be asked, but as nobody has done so, allow me:
Nick, why are there no italics for the extreme weights (Thin and Black)?
It would have been a lot of work, the Thin requiring much delicate drawing, and the Black being awkward to design/draw. And I reason that those weights would rarely if ever be licensed or used by designers.
Why are there no small caps, fractions, superiors and inferiors, in the Thin, Extra Light and Black weights?
Again, it would have been a lot of work, which I don't believe would ever have been used. These are "expert" features used in body text, so are not required in display weights.
***
Was I correct in my assumptions?
Is there no call for Thin italic or Black small caps?
30 Dec 2010 — 11:43am
Like I said, Nick, I am a sucker for xtreme weights.
30 Dec 2010 — 11:46am
But have you ever used small caps, fractions etc., or italics in those weights?
30 Dec 2010 — 12:32pm
Smallcaps and italics, yes, but so far, not fractions in a real job (other than in a promotional piece I did for Dez Boulder and Froggy)
30 Dec 2010 — 1:40pm
Bloody beautiful mate. Well done!
30 Dec 2010 — 1:41pm
Especially the signature majiscules
31 Dec 2010 — 3:04am
This truly is a beautiful piece of work.
My only question is in regards to pricing. I see on myfonts it is currently $245 with the promotion and $350 without it.
With the lack of weights/styles what justifies the pricing when I could purchase Archer with 25 Styles for $280 and get all the weights that weren't created for Bodoni Egyptienne or even spend $50 more when the Bodoni promotion ends and get all 40 styles of archer for $400.
14 styles of Bodoni Egyptienne for $245
25 styles of Archer for $280
It makes it hard to consider Bodoni when I am getting 11 additional weights for $35 with Archer.
I only bring this up because I am currently very seriously considering this purchase myself and I am having to decide between the two. When I hear a designer say "it would have been a lot of work", this makes me questions the overall integrity of the font. I am not so sure HFJ said the same thing when designing Archer and is this evidenced by the weights/styles available. It may be easier for me to justify spending that $35 and going with Archer even though this is such a new and beautiful font.
31 Dec 2010 — 6:03am
Both of these are fine designs.
The standard EULA for Archer is very different from the EULA for Bodoni Egyptian, so your intended usage could tip things.
Compare this:
http://www.typography.com/home/eula.php
and this:
http://new.myfonts.com/fonts/shinn/bodoni-egyptian-pro/regular/buy.html
(click on view license)
Nick's standard EULA is far more liberal, allowing public PDFs and modifications.
Also, Nick's EULA is for 5 computers, and you're quoting the H&J price for one.
Plus, Bodoni Egyptian is available with an @font-face license at FontSpring.
Finally, Archer is everywhere, Bodoni Egyptian is not (yet!)
31 Dec 2010 — 6:36am
Very informative and things I had not considered......other than Archer being everywhere :)
It's tough with fonts because right when you think you have found the "right" font for a project, you then have to read the fine print.
31 Dec 2010 — 7:12am
"... right when you think you have found the "right" font for a project, you then have to read the fine print."
That's not just true of fonts!
31 Dec 2010 — 10:56am
John’s reminder to dig into the licenses is a good one. Also keep it mind that # of fonts (weights/styles) isn't the only indicator of a family's value. There is also the matter of small caps, extra alternate glyphs, and language support.
31 Dec 2010 — 11:27am
When I hear a designer say "it would have been a lot of work", this makes me questions the overall integrity of the font.
Certainly, integrity may be defined as each font in a typeface family having exactly the same characters and features.
I sacrificed a little of that for what I considered increased utility. Rather than skimping on features and styles in some weights, please think of it as generosity in other weights :-)
When comparing weights, it's also useful to consider their range, not just their number.
31 Dec 2010 — 11:23am
Congratulations Nick, nice work!
31 Dec 2010 — 11:35am
And number of weights is not necessarily a sign of quality.
31 Dec 2010 — 1:21pm
Numbers rarely tell it all. These are easy to tally but but not really the indicator of quality. Anyone who needs the extra glyphs in the black weight can get them either through Nick or some other way.
31 Dec 2010 — 12:35pm
.
2 Jan 2011 — 9:54am
Christopher: