seven with a cross-bar?

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Russell McGorman's picture
Joined: 25 May 2006 - 10:01am
seven with a cross-bar?
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Why?

Fonts with cross-bar sevens (aside from scripts)?

I believe that it is common in the handwriting of people who've been educated in Europe but not so much in North America.

I'm using it to add bulk to a tabular lining seven, but I don't recall seeing it in other fonts apart from scripts.

Riccardo Sartori's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 - 4:20am
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Do you need a serif or a sans?
You could try to “identify" it using Identifont telling it you just have the 7.
Or you can draw it and feed the image to What The Font and see if it come out with anything.

Nick Curtis's picture
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Joined: 21 Apr 2005 - 8:16am
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Your belief about handwriting training is correct; however, a bar on the seven won't prevent an American from recognizing what it is supposed to be. If it looks good, do it...

Russell McGorman's picture
Joined: 25 May 2006 - 10:01am
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:o)

I know it won't cause confusion on this side of the Atlantic. I wasn't confused the first time I noticed it. I just wondered why it was there. My then fiance wondered why it wasn't on my sevens.

The reason I am using in my font is to help he seven take up more space in the tabular figures and kill a gap that would be there otherwise.

The font is a sans.

Reynir Heiðberg Stefánsson's picture
Joined: 19 Nov 2010 - 11:15am
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I've seen a barred seven in some Vietnamese fonts.

http://www.tti-us.com/uvn/

Nick Curtis's picture
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Joined: 21 Apr 2005 - 8:16am
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I just wondered why it was there

I think to avoid confusing a sloppily-written seven with a one...

Russell McGorman's picture
Joined: 25 May 2006 - 10:01am
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... Or a two, as was a recent close call at a bookstore where a book's handwritten price might been $12.50 or $17.50 depending on the clerk's interpretation.

I see your point.

Charles Ellertson's picture
Joined: 3 Nov 2004 - 11:00am
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The old European handwritten "one" looked like a Stateside seven. Never in type, though.

As for the character, just steal it from your Tironian "et"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironian_notes

Stephen Rapp's picture
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Joined: 17 Sep 2006 - 3:41pm
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I think what Nick is referring to is that in scripts, especially from older samples from France and other European countries, the one was often given an exaggerated lead in stroke that could be confused as a seven. Beyond that I think it might have been picked up as a stylistic variant, but the connection between the 1 and 7 in these script forms is likely the main reason for that crossbar.

This is also done with cap Z's, but I'm not exactly clear how that came about other than to add some visual weight and create less white space.

Uli Stiehl's picture
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Joined: 1 Feb 2006 - 8:02am
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Here are a few typefaces featuring 7 with cross-bar:

Arabella
Arkona
Bison
Brahms-Gotisch
Candida
Chronika
Constantia
Diplomat
Federzug-Antiqua
Forte
Fox
Fraktur-Kursiv
Gotenburg
Hermann-Gotisch
Hobby
Intarsia
Journal-Antiqua
Junior
Lo-Schrift
Prägefest
Reporter
Rheingold
Salto
Schlanke
Signal
Skizze
Splendor
Tannenberg
Trump-Deutsch
Wieynk-Fraktur

Candida is the best-known font with cross-bar 7.

Indra Kupferschmid's picture
Joined: 8 Aug 2007 - 3:23am
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Reynir Heiðberg Stefánsson's picture
Joined: 19 Nov 2010 - 11:15am
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Forgot... I was taught to write 1 with a sloping roof and 7 barred.

Russell McGorman's picture
Joined: 25 May 2006 - 10:01am
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seven.tnum from my font. The bar works for me here to bulk up the tabular lining figure 7, preventing those unsightly gaps.

Frode Bo Helland's picture
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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We write those bars horizontally.

Riccardo Sartori's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 - 4:20am
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I agree with Frode. Now it gives a strong faux-greek feeling. Also, the 1 looks italic compared to the other numbers.

Jörg Gustafs's picture
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Joined: 19 Nov 2009 - 8:59am
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It was very common in Germany till the 1950s, in both broken and Mediäval (Roman) typefaces.
I’ve seen it on older DIN signs, too (I think DIN Next features a cross-bar seven).

The text Indra linked to sums it up quite well!

Russell McGorman's picture
Joined: 25 May 2006 - 10:01am
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thanks.

Happy 2011 everyone

Alexa Priebe's picture
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Joined: 4 Dec 2010 - 8:50am
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I'm an American who writes with a crossbar on the seven and the Z... and I have no idea why.

Maybe I saw it once, and adopted it? Anyone do that when they were learning how to write?

Uli Stiehl's picture
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Joined: 1 Feb 2006 - 8:02am
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Lexophile:

Look here for 7 and Z:

www.bmukk.gv.at/medienpool/15139/1994_56_beilage2.pdf

(Austrian School Script)

Matthew Stephen Stuckwisch's picture
Joined: 7 Feb 2007 - 10:21am
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Lexophile: you cross the seven to avoid confusion with the 1 or 2 (depending on your script style either could end up confused, more the 1 in styles where the 1 looks like /\ like in Spain, and 2 elsewhere) and the Z to avoid confusion with the 2. I've always thought it a mathematicians tool more than anything ,where you need to know the difference in handwriting between 2z 22 and 17 11 and 77 for example.

Frode Bo Helland's picture
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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Yes, in fact my old math teacher would slap us students if we didn't draw the seven barred!

Kevin Pease's picture
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Joined: 19 Oct 2003 - 5:03pm
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In some cursive scripts, the bar is just about all that distinguishes Z from L.

Matthew Stephen Stuckwisch's picture
Joined: 7 Feb 2007 - 10:21am
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cerulean: do you have an example of one of those? I've seen a couple of different ways to do a Z but they all begin with the same stroke as the O (up and over) whereas the Ls are normally done with the same stroke as the e (under and up). I have a design I've been fleshing out for children's textbooks but want to include different variants so its usable across different areas.

Jason Pagura's picture
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006 - 6:19pm
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I don't even remember how I was taught to do a cursive cap L or Z, but I do remember the only thing distinguishing T from F was a crossbar.

Matthew Stephen Stuckwisch's picture
Joined: 7 Feb 2007 - 10:21am
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Whoa, cuttlefish, where did you learn?

Jason Pagura's picture
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006 - 6:19pm
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California public school. I haven't used cursive writing since the 7th grade anyway.
That's about the year the teachers care more about content than penmanship, and some of them let us type our papers.

Kevin Pease's picture
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Joined: 19 Oct 2003 - 5:03pm
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In most cases, when they're similar, the opening swash of the L will be turned upward while that of the Z is turned downward. But the rules aren't hard and fast enough that you can be absolutely sure when you see a Z on its own, with no L to compare it to.

Here are some examples that I found on MyFonts, a few that depend on a crossbar and some more that could really use one.

(What the hell, Letraset.)

This is why the descending "3" form of Z is probably the wisest choice for fancy scripts.

Riccardo Sartori's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 - 4:20am
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That last Aristocrat example is almost unbelievable!

Beau W's picture
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Joined: 11 Nov 2008 - 9:57pm
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I'm dealing with number-heavy, hand written instructions from my European co-worker every day, and if not for the barred 7, I would mix it up with the 1, 2, 5 and 9 (the way she writes them.)

Jörg Gustafs's picture
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Joined: 19 Nov 2009 - 8:59am
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Aristocrat? More like Cheapskate ;)

Amelia Farnham's picture
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Joined: 5 Mar 2014 - 8:43pm
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I am an American and I believe the reason why each number is the way it is because of the number of angles. When reasoning numbers visually to a young learner
- 0 has no sharp angles
- 1 has one upright angle
- 2 should have two angles. one back one forth
- 3 should have 3 angles back forth...back forth
- 4 is the one that actually should not be crossed with three angles inside the closed four and one at the crook
- 5 should be a S with a bottom up angle do distinguish between number and letter
- 6 is one square and an incomplete square by one side
- 7 is the most messed with in terms of its original logic it should have a mini crossed base and center with its usual top and slash side
- 8 two squares simple enough
- 9 looks more like a g than a flip side 6

Just google the logic of numbers and go to images to find the true reasoning of numbers
http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photos-origin-numbers-shape-image10670373