Fitz, a hairline slab serif

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matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
Fitz, a hairline slab serif
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Hi all,
just wanted to get some professional words from everyone.
This is Fitz, an old style, single stroke width slab serif.
Its a single stroke width throughout - and I'd like to keep it that way - unless I add little ink traps or feel the need to optically modify some strokes.

I've actually finished all the upper & lowercase characters but I've only set up this png.
I want to include some alternative glyphs but at the same time I want some good default characters - the Q & K come to mind as having swashes or alternates.
I'm also curious about your thoughts on the variations of b/f/m/s & the single serif of v & x.
Ignore the earless g and first t, I don't like them at all.

I'll post more soon.

Thanks in advance

Riccardo Sartori's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 - 4:20am
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First t isn’t so bad! :-)
As for the single serif on v and x, they need to be see in actual words. I think v could work, not so sure about x (have you tried to remove the bottom right one too?). And what about poor w, so full of serifs!? ;-)

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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riccard0,
I think the first t is a bit tall. but thats not a huge issue in the face of some of the other characters.
Do you think the w has too much congestion there?

There is no change to the previously posted image, just additional letters to complete the upper & lowercase alphabet.

I'm working on my old style & lining numerals and some other punctuation.

Riccardo Sartori's picture
Joined: 13 Jul 2009 - 4:20am
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About t: I was just saying that it could work (while the Van Gogh g surely don’t ;-)
About w: if you go with a single serif v, I would expect a similar treatment to w too.
Other letters: I would discard the middle X and the middle M, and both first z and Z.

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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I don't know why it never occurred to me to lop off a serif from the w and lighten the colour a bit.
Thanks for the advice on the X/M/Z & z. I'll get to putting these characters into a workable font and see what happens.

I'll post more soon.
Thanks again.

Trevor Baum's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2010 - 8:57am
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I think the 1st and 3rd Q's are the best - the other two are a bit too out-there.

Ben Mitchell's picture
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Joined: 12 Aug 2007 - 4:05pm
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You'll probably want to harmonise the widths a bit more. The counters of /eco/ are quite a lot rounder than the narrow /bdpqs/. Personally I'd bring up the middle of the /a/ to make the bowl larger, but I can see that's a design choice you've made already.

Are the rightmost legs of /mn/ sloped outwards?

D needs some help. I like the second Q.

Would need to see a pdf to give deeper crit. But keep going, try setting words or sentences, it looks like you have an eye that will resolve some of the parameters. Don't hurry.

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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Bendy, I've included a pdf attachment in the initial post. Same as the png in my previous post.

Zoom and critique as much as you'd like, I'd love detailed feedback.
The counters & elliptical shapes of the round characters I agree with. I'll fumble with those a bit more.
The m/n & h do have sloped legs.
The D admittedly, needs lots of help.
The tittles are slanted. Thats changed to simple circle.

Do you see the rightmost G leaning a bit too much to the right? I'm not of fan of the middle tail, by the way.
W/X & Z are more problem characters. I don't know which - if any - is stronger than the other.
With some adjustment, I might include all the Qs in the glyph palette. Just 1 will get the default of course.

Trevor Baum's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2010 - 8:57am
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I like the look of this so far - but be wary of [[http://vllg.com/Incubator/Kina#panel=usage-poster|Kina]], "coming soon" from Village/Incubator. The Thin weight looks pretty similar to Fitz, unfortunately.





matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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hm, well it does resemble it for sure. I thought of going to ball terminal route but this is sure sign to stick to my guns.
The similarities are there, but I think there is enough different between the two faces to keep the progress of what I have.
Its really just motivating to see where Fitz can go.
Thanks for posting this.

Trevor Baum's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2010 - 8:57am
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Definitely! It wasn't meant to discourage you, but rather to tell you to stick to your guns because you're on the right track.

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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Whoa, also just realized those images of Kina were from the NYTimes Magazine. That says something. Thanks Trevor

Robert K.'s picture
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Joined: 30 May 2007 - 5:52pm
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My opinion is that Fritz resembles Kina mainly because of similar glyph proportions and especially weight which seems to be spot on.

But shapes are different even though at this weight they diminish. If Fritz comes out not only as thin but also as light, regular bold and black it will become more distinctive from Kina.

Regular weights usually set shape differentiator.

P.S. Even though Kina is more uniform compared to the current state of Fritz I don't like it's ball terminals. Seem odd on those letters. I see lots of dots because of them.

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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I like the semi calligraphic terminals of Kina in the bold/extra bold of the lowercase r & a, but I agree with you litera, they just seem at in the light/thin context.
Ah well, I'll learn from Kina then.

Trevor Baum's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2010 - 8:57am
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That's the spirit Matt! I agree with litera, and I like your choice to not use ball terminals (that niche has been recently filled by Archer and Bodoni Egyptian, anyway).

I do think you could take a look at the shape of the 'a' and 'g' of Kina as an inspiration. Other than that, looking good.

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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I like the direction of the new elliptical characters. Here is the new q & p based on the o.
The grey characters are where I started and the new, preferred characters are on the furthest end.
I'm a little weary they might be a little too open, thats a huge counter. But maybe it'll expand well with different weights? Either way, they match the e, c & o better.

I've still got to improve my b & d to keep it in the family.

The progress with the a here moves from right to left. I'm thinking the furthest left is the strongest, based on the relationship with the rest of the set.

Thoughts?

Trevor Baum's picture
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Joined: 16 Dec 2010 - 8:57am
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The proportions remind me a bit of Bembo, in a good way.

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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(In my first post) I've attached a slightly updated version of the font with a bit of sample text. The kerning is a bit off on some of the important pairs, I realize. Anyway, the letterforms themselves are much more mature. Only slight changes to make there.

matt yow's picture
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Joined: 8 Mar 2010 - 9:35pm
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Also, excuse me, the tittles are way too high on the lower case i & j. The tail of the Q is a bit too close to the contour & baseline.