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Pls help me ID these 2 faces: Serif and Sans Serif (Upper)

I believe the sans is Helvetica Neue, various weights, but the serif here I can't place...Looks very similar to the Prada logo actually...


Looks like one of the numerous fonts called Engravers [http://new.myfonts.com/search/Engravers/fonts/], but which one ?

And the sans-serif is Helvetica.