check out - POIRET - free font

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Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
check out - POIRET - free font
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Hi
I invite you to evaluate a my new font POIRET )))
http://www.behance.net/gallery/POIRET/3273549

Criticism is welcome.))
I'm glad to hear all ( it does not mean that I agree with all )))

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Looks nice.
I think it would benefit a lot from multiple weights.
For example in your first Behance image, "KING OF"
could be set in a darker weight to match the rest.

BTW, the bottom of the "S" is too thin.

hhp

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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@hrant - thanks ))
"I think it would benefit a lot from multiple weigh" - totally agree, now working on another 5 weights )))
"the bottom of the "S" is too thin" - now i see... ((( been fixed in version 2 with the addition of weights.

Nick Shinn's picture
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Joined: 8 Jul 2003 - 11:00am
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I prefer this to your others, it has more of a unique personality.
However, the “f” is incorrect, a naïve mistake — why would you publish this at Google already?

I like your choice of name — Paul Poiret was a seminal figure in the development of the Art Deco aesthetic.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Yeah, the "f" is no good.
The "k" needs help too.

hhp

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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@Nick Shinn - thank you.
"the “f” is incorrect, a naïve mistake" - the crossbar omitted knowingly )))
I tried both variations and prefer this.
"I like your choice of name" - you are the first who understood meaning )))))).
"k" - middle point raised also especially. it gives to the font "unique personality" )))

"why would you publish this at Google already" - no one with whom to consult until now ))))))

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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These flaws might turn you on, but you're not
your users - you're reducing the value of your
work by refusing to listen to good advice.

Type design is not Art.

> no one with whom to consult until now

Just checking: so this was released more than 11 weeks ago?

hhp

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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Type design - it's design to. Notion "Art" for my fonts - for me a compliment )))
"Typography begins where ends Helvetica" (c)

Denis Masharov's picture
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no one with whom to consult until now - It was ironic )))))))

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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You're clearly not here to get help. The thing is,
if you think about it, you're not exactly getting
good publicity here either... I've seen threads
where nobody can post a reply, and I have to
recommend you go that route.

hhp

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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I am here to listen to the opinion.
Agree with him or not - this is my decision.
If I am confident in my decision - why are you so obsessive with it?
You expressed your opinion, I did not agree with it, take it easy.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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I am detecting an attitude that is contrary to
Design, and I don't want to look the other way.

hhp

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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Design - this is not a set of laws and regulations.
Design is primarily an internal feeling.
if everyone followed the rules, there would be such a variety of fonts.
Does Emigre fonts match your "rules"?
You do not say apriori truth, you're just say yours opinion.
Even if your opinion is based on someone's "rules", so I deliberately break these "rules" for a particular outcome.
No need to prove anything to me, just tell me your opinion once, I hear it.
And do not be so hard if I do not agree with your opinion. take it easy. )))

Frode Bo Helland's picture
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 - 1:03pm
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Someone should kill Typophile.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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> Design is primarily an internal feeling.

I've been discussing design with all kinds of
people since 1998, and frankly I'm finding it
impossible to remember a worse definition.

> I deliberately break these "rules" for a particular outcome.

Breaking rules can be incredibly fruitful.
I do it all the time. But I don't break
windows just because I feel like it.

The main problem is the particular outcome
here seems to be entirely self-expression.
Just because it's very hard to make a good
living in Fine Art doesn't mean anti-user
fonts magically become good.

> just tell me your opinion once

It's important to remember that in a public
discussion the participants are not the only
beneficiaries. If this were a private exchange
I would have stopped a long time ago.

hhp

Nick Shinn's picture
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Joined: 8 Jul 2003 - 11:00am
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"the “f” is incorrect, a naïve mistake" - the crossbar omitted knowingly )))

That’s not what I was referring to.
The ascender of the “f” is too short, and the crossbar too low.
It looks like it belongs to a different font.
I’ve seen this mistake occasionally amongst students I’ve taught, and I suspect that you have made the kind of “unfamiliar with the alphabet (script)” error that Westerners sometimes make when designing Cyrillics.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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No, no - every detail is intentional, and brilliant.
Art can never be wrong.

hhp

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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@Nick Shinn - Thanks for the reference. I have long worked on the "f" and "t" to give them the "character".
a standard form was not very suited for my purposes. Maybe "f" looks unusual - but this is what I want.
I appreciate your opinion and I'll play with it more, but likely again focus on the chosen form, I am glad it "unusual" )))))

@hrant - Discussions with you over

Nick Shinn's picture
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Joined: 8 Jul 2003 - 11:00am
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I am aware of a Latin style that has the low-crossbar, short ascender “f”—it is an American silent movie intertitle lettering style, which Nick Curtis has rendered in fonts, Eulalie and Photoplay; however, he made the ascender full height, as was usually the case in the lettering.

Alex Kaczun's picture
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Joined: 27 Mar 2008 - 12:02pm
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@Denis—I like your solution for the "f" and "t" within your overall design.

Aesthetics is completely subjective. Everyone has an opinion.

Always go with your personal "gut feeling" when designing fonts.

Nothing is ever really "wrong".

Never be afraid to break the rules when the design warrants it.

The "quirkiness" of your overall design and the "art nouveau"-"art deco" aspects work effectively throughout the font design.

As an example, the lower cross bar in glyphs such as "E", "F", "H" and "4" harmonize well with similar aspects in top-to-bottom proportions of "B", "R" and "8", and certainly are mimicked well in your solution for the "f"and "t". In addition, the narrow and wide body proportions further enhance the visual effects. Well done.

The overall design works. I also like the name of the font.

Good luck, and I wish you much success.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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> Nothing is ever really "wrong".

In a way that's true. But -especially in Design- things
can be -and always are- better or worse. This is especially
true in a text face: http://typophile.com/node/90558

hhp

Denis Masharov's picture
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@Alex Kaczun - Thank you )))

Denis Masharov's picture
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Hrant H Papazian's picture
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So what is Design?

BTW, unless that's your own quote, it needs an attribution.

hhp

Nick Shinn's picture
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If you’re Miles Davis, you can get away with saying “no such thing as a mistake”, but if you’re a novice, lacking in experience and recognition …

Denis Masharov's picture
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@Nick Shinn - )))))))
I am pleased to learn, but I trust my feelings.
I have Bachelor of Arts degree, and during the 6 years studied including typography.
The main thing which we have trained - to trust self feelings. )))
And if my senses tell me that I was right - I go to a violation of the rules.
I'm not saying that I know all the rules. That's why I show you the my fonts - to listen to the advice.
My fonts is released under SIL Open Font License and I do not need to advertise them to increase sales. )))
My goal - to get your opinion. But I have a my vision, and it may not coincide with your. )))
I'm ready and I want to listen, but reserve the decision - to use or not.
Thank you for your attention, I hope you will always be free to comment my fonts. ))))

Denis Masharov's picture
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??????
spam

Reynir Heiðberg Stefánsson's picture
Joined: 19 Nov 2010 - 11:15am
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Which inevitably leads me to think of this: http:// – the Monty Python gang's spam skit.

Thomas Phinney's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2002 - 11:00am
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It's better than the average amateur work, and not bad for a first font. A few comments:

- the f looks silly. Nick is quite right. I'm not sure I've ever seen a professional typeface, other than a script or hand-lettered style, in which the crossbar of the f and the t were at different heights.

- some of the transitions from rounded to straight lines, such as the shoulder of the n, are a little too abrupt

- where round shapes meet straight lines, such as in abdpq, you need some optical compensation by thinning the curved part where it comes in to meet the straight. It's not as bad a problem as it would be in a heavier weight, but it still needs a hint of thinning.

- the sidebearings of the A should presumably be the same as the V. But in any case, the round sidebearings could all be a little less, and those of letters like AVTX could all be a lot less.

- there's no kerning. This is a good thing given that the spacing isn't done. But more browsers are supporting kerning now, and you need it in a geometric sans like this for the typeface to be done.

Cheers,

T

Denis Masharov's picture
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Joined: 10 Dec 2011 - 2:13am
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@Thomas Phinney - Thanks ))

"the f looks silly. Nick is quite right. I'm not sure I've ever seen a professional typeface, other than a script or hand-lettered style, in which the crossbar of the f and the t were at different heights"
-- I really like the "f"... ) I prefer to lower the crossbar of the the "t"... ) But it may look even stranger...

"where round shapes meet straight lines, such as in abdpq, you need some optical compensation by thinning the curved part where it comes in to meet the straight. It's not as bad a problem as it would be in a heavier weight, but it still needs a hint of thinning."
-- I right now working on additional faces, which I focused on the optical compensation. It will increase from light to heavy weight

"some of the transitions from rounded to straight lines, such as the shoulder of the n, are a little too abrupt"
-- I will take this into account in future versions with additional faces.

"the sidebearings of the A should presumably be the same as the V. But in any case, the round sidebearings could all be a little less, and those of letters like AVTX could all be a lot less"
-- I'll check. I worked on Spacings, not apparently (((

"there's no kerning"
-- I did kerning. should be about 800 kerning pairs. strangely why it does not work... (((