Logo feedback

Hi everyone!

I'm new here and was looking for some feedback on the logo I'm working on at the moment. I have hit a wall and I'm no longer sure I'm on the right track. Hang it to dry please! Need some perspective here :)
Have a look here http://www.behance.net/gallery/PRECISION-feedback-seeking-%29/4577977

About me, as is rude not to introduce myself, I'm a graphic designer living and working in London UK but I'm from Madrid. I work in the fashion industry at the moment and to keep the juices flowing I get to do some side projects in my spare time.

Any comments welcome and much appreciated!

riccard0's picture

Your link points to your main Behance page, not the logo.

hrant's picture

http://www.behance.net/gallery/PRECISION-feedback-seeking-%29/4577977

Except for the nice narrowness, it doesn't seem to be saying "precision", or "sports", or "measurement", or "personal"...

It's a cliché, but I think it works: try slanting the letterforms; but keep them narrow, and rigid.

You could also try replacing the "E" with ruler marks (which we've actually seen done on Typophile) or the "O" with [something that evokes] a stopwatch.

Another thing that might work is giving this a bitmapfont (or seven-segment) flavor (maybe just for the "PT", or the "E" or "O") which would evoke the electronic equipment typically used in high-end physical training.

hhp

HVB's picture

Here's a direct link:
http://www.behance.net/wip/9541/18677

Irene:

A couple of thoughts -
I find that the corner cuts look accidental - as if someone accidentally clipped the word while doing some cutting and pasting. It leaves just the opposite impression of 'Precision'.

The wording, "Train with purpose" needs better spacing ("Train" is too close to "with" when compared to the spacing between "with" and "purpose", but that's a minor point, because the entire phrase makes absolutely no sense to me. I THINK it means "Training With a Purpose"; but I've never heard of training WITHOUT a purpose - have you?. Does the PT up in the corner have any connection with the rest of the logo, or have any hidden significance?

- Herb

erealuv's picture

Hey Herb, thanks a lot for your comments. And for the direct link!

I'm finding it really difficult to convey "Precision" without falling into the cliches mentioned above (stopwatch and the like). I guess it was a way of adding a bit of up-and-forward movement without having to go for the leaning trick, not that I didn't tried, it just looked lame.

Train with purpose is the name of the website so I'm stuck with it (maybe the client is completely wrong in here but unfortunately I cannot change this although I can give my opinion). Although I think that it does make sense (yep, there's people that 'train' without any kind of purpose and just hang out at gyms...at least mine!)I see your point and it might not be the right wording for the message they want to convey.
- Great advice on the spacing by the way...I'll be changing that!

The PT thingy came with the brief, Personal Training...but you're right, it's not needed!

Thanks very much again!!

erealuv's picture

Thanks for your comments Hrant.

I have tried almost all your suggestions and they didn't work for me really, just looked too dated and a bit lame to be honest. The client is very keen in not having a too sporty looking logo and I'd like to think I got the font right at least :)

Thank you and good night! It's getting late at this end

erealuv's picture

I wanted to delete this one, not sure how to...

hrant's picture

Frankly it sounds like you might be too concerned with appearing sophisticated to other designers, at the expense of finding a logo that will actually bring customers to your client... I say this because I see it happen all the time - but hopefully I'm wrong in this case.

Of course you don't want something like a big honking stopwatch illustration in there - it's all about subtly evoking an idea... but there has to be an idea there (not just abstract graphical manipulation) and an idea that the potential customers can related to. The only people interested in trying to read the obscure thoughts of a graphic designer are other graphic designers. And they're not exactly your client's target demographic. :-)

The font: what do you like about it?

hhp

HVB's picture

I only saw the page I linked to - not the one that Hrant linked to, and never saw the description - in context, such as over a gym doorway or in a display advertisement, the PT and "Train With Purpose" make a lot more sense, although PT could as easily stand for Physical Therapy, which is the first thing that came to mind (an age-related connection, no doubt!)

hrant's picture

Hmmm, this might actually be a rare occasion where Bell Gothic's jarring bars on the "I" could work...

Try this weight:
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/bitstream/bell-gothic/black/
or
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/paratype/bell-gothic-bt/black-italic/

hhp

JamesM's picture

I know you didn't like the suggestion of a stopwatch, but I just want to mention that a stopwatch doesn't say precision to me. Exercise generally isn't about doing something in a precise unit of time (unless it's a race).

A more appropriate graphic to me would be a target. Yes it's a cliche, but perhaps there's a way to suggest it in a subtle way. Another thing that suggests precision is a grid.

Also your tag line is too small and light for situations where the logo is reproduced small (which is how logos are sized in most uses).

hrant's picture

Target is good.

hhp

erealuv's picture

Frankly it sounds like you might be too concerned with appearing sophisticated to other designers, at the expense of finding a logo that will actually bring customers to your client... I say this because I see it happen all the time - but hopefully I'm wrong in this case.

@hhp
Ouch! That hurt!!! :-) ! I don't care much about being or appearing sophisticated to others designers or not, but if that was the case it's something unconscious.
What I dislike about the stopwatch is giving more importance to the goal than to the process that leads you to the goal, something my client is all about. I will probably give it a go though, just to play with the idea as I discarded it from the beginning and may be i shouldn't have, "try everything" is a good way to go. And I will try that typeface you recommend although I don't really like it, but again "try everything, there's nothing to lose!"
What I like about the font is that is solid, the narrowness, the fact that is constructed with very straight strokes appearing quite strict but softened with nice round angles. It has quite a presence without being too heavy on the eye. Hope this makes a bit of sense :)

@HVB
I see..he he he! In many ways exercise is physical therapy, isn't it?
My client is mostly concerned about the corners being interpreted as "cutting corners" which as a Spaniard is an expression I haven't ingrained in my brain so it doesn't pop as that but I understand his view and wanted to have more english speakers' opinions.
@JamesM
I agree that a stopwatch is not as much about precision as it is about goals and the client is more keen in emphasizing the journey opposed to the destination if that makes sense. That's why i didn't play with that idea although it obviously came to mind.
I sketched the target and also showed a blueprint-like logo and another one built on a grid. All of them rejected. This one was chosen and that's where I get stuck as there isn't a very solid idea or concept behind it. I will upload my sketches maybe there is a way of developing one of them further and I can propose something else.
I'll have a look at the tagline, I printed it with 1cm height for the whole thing and it was readable, I'll doublecheck that again.

Thanks to all of you for your very useful ideas & comments, all taken onboard. I have a few things to try now so I don't feel as stuck. Please keep commenting!
Irene

JamesM's picture

> This one was chosen and that's where I get stuck as there
> isn't a very solid idea or concept behind it.

Never show your client a design option that you don't like, because that's the design your client will pick.

erealuv's picture

I know...it's not that I don't like it because aestethically I really do but if I was back at art school I would struggle backing it! I was a bit out of ideas I have to admit! :(

hrant's picture

Wait, so the client has already liked it? But I guess you want to like it too. Do you know what they like about it? Because they don't seem to like the cut corners, and that's the most distinguishing thing... Maybe they just like the font (which is certainly a comforting thing). What about simply slanting the middle "I" a bit? And maybe make those cut corners the same angle (assuming you keep them).

BTW, I thought you're supposed to show them a lousy option so they happily pick the one you want them to...

hhp

HVB's picture

'Cutting Corners' has a VERY NEGATIVE connotation in English. It means to do things on the cheap; to bypass necessary steps; to use the cheapest raw materials, doing less than a thorough or complete job, etc.

The origin of the term was probably from horse-drawn carriages, literally making a very sharp turn at an intersecti0n, illegally going over the pedestrian path.

- Herb

JamesM's picture

> I thought you're supposed to show them a lousy option
> so they happily pick the one you want them to...

But if they pick the lousy one, you're stuck working with a design you hate and that you'd be embarrassed to put in your portfolio. It's certainly happened to me!

erealuv's picture

Thanks Herb, I knew the meaning of the expression but didn't have a clue about its origin, very interesting!
What I meant is that it's not something I would pick because of the cultural differences and my client was worried that the missing corners could be interpreted as that; and that although I can understand his point it won't jump at me as it's not ingrained in my brain as it is for a native speaker if that makes sense.
Maybe it's just a case of dropping the whole logo altogether? If as a native speaker he is worrying about it it kind of makes sense to go back to square one. What do you think?

Irene

erealuv's picture

@hrant
Yes the client has already liked it and as is said before I do like it too. Aesthetically. I'm aware it is a weak logo in terms of concept and that's where I get stuck.
They did like the corners, in their words they take a bit of the strictness away and gives the idea of going forward and upwards.
I'm with James, better to show the ones you're happy with, in my case I'm not unhappy...just stuck. I should have seen this coming!

I

erealuv's picture

Me again, super quick test of some of the concepts we've discussed here (targets, slanting letters & stopwatches) Forgive my kerning and other little details for now if you don't mind...
I had a go at the stopwatch idea which I quite like but I'm concerned about the readability...
I'll be grateful if you give me your opinion lovely people!
Thanks a lot!
I

hrant's picture

I think you should focus on the middle "I" and leave the other one alone (unless highlighting the word "ON" somehow makes sense, in which case I'd stylize the righthand one and leave the middle one alone).

I like the "I" that looks like a one, although that's more of a destination thing and not a journey thing. I also like the colon approach, especially since it would lend itself very well to animation (in case you might ever go there) but it's not enough of an "I"... Maybe make the dots much taller (or cut dots out of an "I"). I think the "Oh" with the cross could work, but might be much better with a totally circular "Oh". I like the one with the middle "I" slanted, because besides implying motion it also makes it look like a formula, like something that needs to be balanced for optimal performance.

BTW, I'm not so sure about your "S" - it might need more polish to make the spine look right. And you might check out the "S" in Pill Gothic*, at least for inspiration.

* http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/betatype/pill-gothic/

hhp

JamesM's picture

I agree with hrant that the crosshair in the O has possibilities, although I'd try reversing it out (white crosshair in a solid black O). It needs to be fairly bold; in a couple of your crosshair layouts the crosshair seems way too small. A circular O might indeed work better if you try this approach.

Another approach might be to create a separate logo symbol, rather than using a typographic logo.

apankrat's picture

Sorry to barge in late in the conversation, but I just can't help. I killed few months playing with concepts for the word "precision," and there were two older threads here on Typophile with the sketches (can't seem to find them with Google, as all of Typophile content appears to be missing from Google).

In any case, one of the sketches was this -

Perhaps it can be recycled in some form for your purpose as it also a good reference to "balance".

timaarts's picture

+1 apankrat

ilovedesign's picture

I like the fourth one down on the left. But I’m curious as to how it would look if you only did the : with the first I (as opposed to the first and second I).

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