iTunes & Helvetica: Cast your vote

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Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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How do you feel about Helvetica and iTunes James?

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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Which fonts would be better choices?

Arial.

[Ducks and runs for cover.]

Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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David Berlow's picture
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Joined: 19 Jul 2004 - 6:31pm
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3

"iTunes isn't immersive reading. Helvetica is entirely adequate for the job."

What does any of that have to do with it!? ;)

(Meanwhile, and speaking of emersive reading, the latest iPadKindle update has a new and more interesting font menu... including, at last, a "publisher font" option. Whew!)

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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James Michaels - Why not change your user name to your full name and avoid any further confusion? Also, the man's name is Jony Ive. No 's'.

Stephen Coles's picture
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Joined: 14 May 2001 - 11:00am
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There are three kinds of reading:

  1. Display (posters, logos, headlines). This includes the decorative, graphic, and eye-catching.
  2. Informational, at-a-glance (charts, tables, prices, data, UI, iTunes). This requires legibility.
  3. Immersive, long-form (paragraphs of text). This requires readability.

To me, Helvetica isn't a good choice for categories 2 or 3. But this is considering functionality. I assume Apple's choice of Helvetica is mostly an aesthetic/branding decision. Unfortunately, they are prioritizing form over function for iTunes, iOS, and other software.

James Montalbano's picture
Joined: 18 Jun 2003 - 11:00am
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How do you feel about Helvetica and iTunes James?

Neutral (3). I'm glad that a humanist sans was not used.

I would have preferred a nice square sans!

Nick Shinn's picture
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Joined: 8 Jul 2003 - 11:00am
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I would be interested in a random option.
Sort of like shuffle.
I mean, who wants to listen to the same old shit all the time?
OK, some people, but not me.
Apply that concept to font selection.

Reynir Heiðberg Stefánsson's picture
Joined: 19 Nov 2010 - 11:15am
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@Typogruffer – That's a paraphrase of Zawinski's Law, btw.

Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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So far here’s our stats:

n = 10
M = 2.6
SD = 0.843

n = The number of prople who voted.
M =Mean. The average vote.
SD = Standard Deviation. The average variation of each vote from the mean.

Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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Unfortunately, they are prioritizing form over function for iTunes, iOS, and other software.”

Agree. That’s why I think they’ll be font fashion conscious.

Peter Enneson's picture
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005 - 1:17pm
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n = 10 / M = 2.6 / SD = 0.843

So Chris, does that mean that in a representative (?) selection of typophiles, opinions are skewed toward dislike, but that most subjects have opinions that are almost halfway between strong and neutral in either direction, but relatively few are entirely neutral, or feel strongly in one or the other direction?

Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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I’m not sure I understand your various interpretations. Are you suggesting 3 possibilities?

1. “…a representative (?) selection of typophiles, opinions are skewed toward dislike…”
2. “…that most subjects have opinions that are almost halfway between strong and neutral in either direction…”
3. “…relatively few are entirely neutral, or feel strongly in one or the other direction?

That’s a bit of a run-on sentence. Can you please rephrase?

Christopher Timothy Dean's picture
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 - 10:49pm
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And it just occurred to me, the raw data is in this thread. Including (valid?) demographic data for who voted.

Peter Enneson's picture
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Joined: 21 Mar 2005 - 1:17pm
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Chris, I was trying to get you to do the work of interpreting the data.

n = 10 / M = 2.6 / SD = 0.843

[Rephrased]
Does that mean that in a representative* selection of typophiles:
1) the balance of opinion (Mean) is skewed toward dislike,
but:
2) most subjects have opinions that are almost halfway between strong and neutral (Standard Deviation — which is quite large) in either direction,
and:
3) relatively few subjects are either entirely neutral, or feel strongly in one or the other direction (Distribution, which you didn’t calculate)?

• (which you didn't test or confirm)

I thought of this as the total picture, which is complex, not alternate interpretations.

James Michaels's picture
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Joined: 6 Mar 2010 - 12:54am
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Using statistical analysis seems rather pointless, this isn't a statistically valid survey, it's just a handful of people volunteering their opinions.

If you don't like Apple's font choices, send them a thoughtful, persuasive letter about it. Better yet, ask each person who's upset to send a separate letter.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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And suggest they at least recycle all that paper.

hhp

Thomas Phinney's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2002 - 11:00am
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James .00 Montalbano: A pity y'all couldn't come to terms. :(

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Indeed Clearview might have made some cultural sense. To Americans. Some Americans.

On the other hand I would reiterate my reaction to a Florida official's suggestion that they should have used Interstate for their infamous ballots back in 2000 by saying, yeah, give me one of those and I'll ask her to read it while I smash her face with it at 65mph.

In the end signage type is for signage, not small hand-held emissive screens.

Why not change your user name to your full name

So "JamesM" is a problem but switching to ".00" after 8+ years is not?
Respect respect.

hhp

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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In the end signage type is for signage, not small hand-held emissive screens.

I presume the Clearview suggestion was in relation to ClearviewText, not the ClearviewHwy signage fonts.

By the way, there is a thoughtful and detailed article about the development of Clearview, written by Dave Farey, in the latest issue of the St Bride Library journal (website woefully out of date).

James Michaels's picture
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Joined: 6 Mar 2010 - 12:54am
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> James Michaels - Why not change your user name
> to your full name and avoid any further confusion?

Stephen, I'll consider that, but I've been using the same username here for almost 3 years.