Help with different orthographies

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Dave Rowland Schizotype Fonts's picture
Joined: 19 May 2009 - 6:33pm
Help with different orthographies
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Currently working on a script font, and I've got two questions:
1. is ccedilla ever written with the cedilla as a continuation of the stroke? I'm thinking when the c doesn't connect to the next letter, as in ç’est bon

2. is lslash used in any languages other than Polish? and if it is, should the script form of lslash be default or language specific?

Michel Boyer's picture
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Joined: 2 Jun 2007 - 1:01pm
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Here is a grab from Apolline by Jean-François Porchez

This should answer the "is it ever". I personally prefer when it is a continuation.

Dave Rowland Schizotype Fonts's picture
Joined: 19 May 2009 - 6:33pm
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Ooooh, that's nice. Never seen it like that before.

Hrant H Papazian's picture
Joined: 3 May 2000 - 11:00am
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Ever, shmever. I think what you're doing there with the cedilla is pretty cool. And I don't even like script fonts! :-)

hhp

Jan Żurawski's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2005 - 12:21pm
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2. How children are taught to write Łł: http://www.yummy.pl/video/pl/alfabet/pl/lodz
Can you connect "wave" to /l ?
łódź = boat, Łódź = city
It looks like Łł is used in another languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81

Dave Rowland Schizotype Fonts's picture
Joined: 19 May 2009 - 6:33pm
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And I don't even like script fonts!

I've got bills to pay! I've got a similar treatment on the ogoneks but they are always endforms (never connect to next glyph)

Thanks Janek, but I'm not sure what you mean by connect wave to l. You mean the slash should touch the l? I'm thinking I'll have a regular lslash and save the script one for a stylistic set. So it'll probably never be used.

–'s picture
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Joined: 28 Feb 2010 - 4:47pm
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I don’t know if it’s relevant, but ‘ce’, shortened to ‘c’’ before a vowel, is written with a plain ‘c’, not with a ‘ç’, i. e. ‘c’est français/bon’.

Dave Rowland Schizotype Fonts's picture
Joined: 19 May 2009 - 6:33pm
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I think I knew that somewhere in the back of my mind. I guess the situations where a non connecting ccedilla would arise are pretty few then. Still, you never know, it might be useful to someone.

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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Yes, the cedilla can be formed in a cursive fashion based on some kind of reversal from the terminal. However, such a cedilla should carry some of the same sense of speed and of the script style, and your cedilla shape is too slow and formal. A shape more open, like that in the Apolline example, would be appropriate.

Jan Żurawski's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2005 - 12:21pm
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"the slash should touch the l?" not obligatorily... but may be longer, wavy, and ascending at the end?

Michel Boyer's picture
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Joined: 2 Jun 2007 - 1:01pm
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your cedilla shape is too slow and formal

I personally don't feel that it is too formal and I would not open it much more than this

Dave Rowland Schizotype Fonts's picture
Joined: 19 May 2009 - 6:33pm
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Thanks for the advice!

Dave Rowland Schizotype Fonts's picture
Joined: 19 May 2009 - 6:33pm
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Janek, is lslash ever followed by an ascender? This would make a longer slash a bit problematic.

Jan Żurawski's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2005 - 12:21pm
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kiełbie bełt Bałtyk Jagiełło dałby chałka opałka kobiałka półka pustułka zapałka
tłok dłubać

John Hudson's picture
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Joined: 21 Dec 2002 - 11:00am
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Note that for double lslash, as in 'Jagiełło', you can use a single stroke above both letters in a script style type, handled as a ligature.

Nick Shinn's picture
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Joined: 8 Jul 2003 - 11:00am
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Would an italic ever be considered “scripty” enough to warrant the top slash?
With Swash caps or the quaint Discretionary Ligatures?

Dave Rowland Schizotype Fonts's picture
Joined: 19 May 2009 - 6:33pm
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Script style default, standard style as stylistic set. Or does anyone think it should be the other way round?

Jan Żurawski's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2005 - 12:21pm
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[lower row] ł needs a bit more room, I think. Also "slash" could be a bit more inclined - check "chałka" vs "chatka".

John Savard's picture
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009 - 8:42pm
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From the Wikipedia article, apparently most of Poland doesn't need the Ł anymore; while its sound is preserved in Eastern Poland, the rest of the country just pronounces it as a W. However, in Polish, W is pronounced as V, if I remember correctly. But then, V is also pronounced as V.

So Ł may be a casualty if Polish is ever subjected to orthographic reform.

Jan Żurawski's picture
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Joined: 3 Sep 2005 - 12:21pm
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Not exactly, John
That is the fact old-school forms of "Ł" "H" "Ó" (almost) disappeared*. But as "H" [hard h] changed* into [soft h], the difference between "L" and "Ł" is still great, they are two distinctive letters, no matter how negligently spoken.

Exercise: chatka, chałka, halka

* in the spoken language