Identify this font

rachelegibbons's picture

I'm looking for the font that says "Wayne Evans". I've tried to identify this font using whatthefont & identifont, but have had no luck. I'm hope you guys can help. The person that I'm locating this font for thinks he got it from dafont.com.

rachelegibbons's picture

Thanks. I believe it's CuprumFFU. Can I ask how you figured this out?

rachelegibbons's picture

My apologies. I just clicked the link. Thanks again.

hrant's picture

Still wantonly ignoring all red flags for the base pleasure of ID a font...

hhp

DPape's picture

There you go again, Mr Hrant.

You really don't like being nice to customers. You should be in a different business.

R.'s picture

What is the relationship between Cuprum and Modena?

Jan's picture

It’s this:
Note of the author (Jovanny Lemonad)
Cuprum was created in 2006 based on the works Miles Newlyn. Cuprum is a narrow grotesque. It is quite versatile. Mostly how it is now, I do not like myself, because as time passed and since then I have learned to make fonts much better. An interesting history of the appearance of his name: Cuprum is copper, not gold or silver. Copper is too noble, but it is much cheaper and copper is not used for medals – only pots.

hrant's picture

Customers?! With customers like that, who needs burglars!

To be fair though: Rachel hasn't done anything wrong here; as I've been saying, the bigger problem is the people "helping".

R., good work. I wish I had good ID skills so I could quickly point to the original (although baiting people is becoming increasingly appealing, although it's not my style). And I have to wonder if Jan (and Mike, and whoever else) knew this little detail but were keeping quiet. Because it sure is what they usually do! :-/

BTW: http://typophile.com/node/45498

So Jan, are you OK with Cuprum too?

hhp

R.'s picture

I don’t really get this. So Miles Newlyn permitted Jovanny Lemonad to create a modified version of Modena?

Jan's picture

Question is how it was based on Newlyn’s work. They are not identical at all. I don’t see the same quality (as Lemonad admits himself). I think it’s an inspirational attempt of copying a master’s work, which has been quite common in the history of art.

Jan's picture

And I have to wonder if Jan (and Mike, and whoever else) knew this little detail but were keeping quiet. Because it sure is what they usually do!

Ignore this comment. It’s simply not true.

hrant's picture

Pure obfuscation.

Here's a realistic interpretation of what probably happened: he wanted a narrow version for his own use (no problem), he opened Modena and changed it around (still no problem for me, although many type designers actually don't agree), then he distributed it (big problem). But forget one unethical font among thousands on Dafont and its ilk - the biggest problem here on the ground is that people on Typophile are playing along just to satisfy their ID addiction, some of them using "inspiration" as a crowbar.

It’s simply not true.

Actually the alternative is worse. :-/

hhp

Jan's picture

Hrant only speaks for himself. He doesn’t speak for Typophile in general or a group of its members and hasn’t been granted authority to do so.

hrant's picture

And I have never asked for any authority, nor recommended anybody be removed.

hhp

Jan's picture

Jovanny Lemonad emailed me back:

Hello, Jan

In 2006, I was impressed by the work of Miles Newlyn and decided to do something similar. I have never had original fonts of Miles. I never modified Modena, had original fonts.

I made the font based on the style of Miles Newlyn. If suddenly you are the original font Modena, you can compare them and see that they have nothing in common.

Inspiration - an inspiration. Nothing more.

Cheers,

Ivan

Jan's picture

hrant's picture

Yeahhh, and "Cuprum was created in 2006 based on the works Miles Newlyn." So two years before the original "inspiration" was released...

The patterns of lies continues into the outlines:

You're wasting so much of your time and mine giving the benefit of the doubt to the wrong person.

hhp

hrant's picture

I think a big part of the problem is that you (plural) haven't made something like Modena from scratch. When you do, and you realize the ridiculous amount of time -both acquiring the skill and then actually making the thing- required, you would take to heart that virtually nobody can come out of thin air, make something like Cuprum, and then give it away. So you would become more attuned to plagiarism, and not recommend such fonts.

My impression is that you (plural) simply enjoy IDing fonts, and you don't want to let anything impede your pleasure. Not even the health of the people and the place that make your IDing possible. As Dick's own profile says: "There is a very blurred line between hobby and mental illness."

hhp

Jan's picture

I’ve also contacted Miles Newlyn and asked him to comment on the matter.
He replied that he would post here.

hrant's picture

Miles happens to be a friend of mine. And I don't mean in the Facebook sense... But I didn't want to bother him with this. Mostly because -as I said- to me it's not about stopping plagiarism (that's hopeless) it's about protecting this little island, which is -still- the largest island type design has.

Do you know an even more pertinent party to contact BTW?
The people who actually paid Miles to make Modena:
http://www.three.co.uk/

But no matter who cares or doesn't, we have to care.

hhp

jovanny's picture

Hello all,
I had to register here.

I absolutely do not want to justify and explain something.
I am an honest person, you can easily check this, Google does not lie.

I'm sorry, that user Hrant trying to catch me with theft and deception. I ask you to make a more detailed Hrant text analysis, not limited in short, if you have the font you are talking about.

I understand that you will recognize your mistake is difficult, because you consider yourself an expert, but I ask you to be objective. Learn the history of my font. If you position yourself as an attorney, conduct a real investigation.

hrant's picture

Thank you for showing up.
Can you explain the "once" overlay above?

BTW like everybody else I've been wrong before. Unlike many people though I actually apologize freely when that happens.

Since you just got here though there's something you should realize: it's not just about you or Cuprum. There's been a lot of fighting here lately between me and a group of people (who only ever do IDs) and my main problem is that they never confront anybody concerning plagiarism -and piracy- no matter how bad or obvious the case. Even outright explicit admission of wrongdoing elicit no reaction. As a result they often promote fonts and behavior that harm the craft, and Typophile.

hhp

jovanny's picture

I repeat I need not make excuses, because all of these accusations - false.

I think this is faked Hrant.
If he has the type of Modena, let's ask him to do a detailed analysis. Without scaling, tracking, airbrushing details.

I do not think anything matches, because I was doing the font itself.

hrant's picture

Here's the genesis of the "once" above:
- I found the numbers for scaling the "n" from Cuprum to the proportions of the "n" from Modena* by using the bounding rectangle (minus the top overshoot). For the benefit of anybody who hasn't used a font editor much: the horizontal scaling can be achieved with a quick global scaling; the vertical is even easier, requiring only a shift in the proportions of the Em.
- I used the same numbers to scale all four glyphs.
- I then placed each Cuprum glyph on top of the corresponding one from Modena, applying a transparency.

* From the PDF here: http://typophile.com/node/45498

There really is way too much similarity.

Also, I would ask where the date of 2006 came from if Modena is from 2008 - and BTW the Dafont release date is towards the end of 2008...

So the most probable scenario is that you did do a good deal of work yourself, but you also did start from Modena's outlines*. Maybe to some people, like Jan (and possibly even Miles!) this moves far enough away from plagiarism and close enough to "inspiration" that it's OK. But when you factor in the effort and expertise required to get to Modena first, to me that's a convenient escapism.

* Which you might have gotten not from the font but from a PDF... like the one on Typophile!

Also, frankly it really doesn't matter if you directly used the outlines from Modena. Even if you trace a scan/printout, even if you just look at it and try to make a direct variant*, that's still closer to plagiarism than inspiration in my book. And I think most designers of original fonts -the stuff that promotes cultural progress as opposed to merely making/saving money- agree with that stance.

* BTW that's how I made my first outline font, Tasagan (although that was actually in a pretty generic classical Armenian genre). But at least now I admit it, and no longer distribute it.

But most of all, like I said, I'm concerned with the bigger picture (not merely Cuprum) and the deplorable total lack of any desire to protect the very things that give so much pleasure to the type ID crowd.

hhp

miles's picture

I support all the points that Hrant made above, besides the fact that it was done from the outlines, which in any case is immaterial to the issue. I have my own moral code, I cannot expect others to live by it.

In 1991 I released Democratica, which was a cut and paste design, and never felt comfortable about that.
So when, in 1992 I had thought that it would be a good idea to extend the character set, add more weights and gently update DIN-Mittelschrift and make good money, I couldn't 'lower' myself to do it - I didn't want to rip off the original designer. It hasn't stopped others, and I accept that it is OK for them.

I have since based work on the outlines of other designers, time saving was necessary for the client and it was done under license.

Jan's picture

Since I’m the one who contacted the designers involved I feel obligated to at least thank both of them for posting here. It would be nice if the other posters asking for the relationship between Cuprum and Modena and the IDers would post to show they took notice. This is about finding out how to handle these cases and to define what’s OK and what is not.

Writer's picture

Hi all,
Heaving read the whole thread of Cuprum vs. Modena, I just want to make clear one thing, and I hope that you will kindly reply.
So, If you see the font you like and start to re-create it - no matter with or without any enhancments/changes - does it account as a pirate copy? I mean not a copy-paste kidding, but honest long time process of drawing vector symbols, aligning them in Fontforge (or whatever) and publishing. Obviously the two fonts will look VERY similar, if not exact, but what about the job done?
For me it's still unclear. Help.

miles's picture

Hi Black Knight of Mother Russia,

the answer to your question is of course "yes, that is a pirate copy" if what you mean by 'publish' is to distribute the copy or use it for commercial gain.

Think of it like singing 'Happy Birthday'; you can change the words a bit by putting the name of the person in, and can sing it for that person, but if you decide to publish it, then you must have permission and pay the copyright holder.

hrant's picture

This is about finding out how to handle these cases and to define what’s OK and what is not.

So what are people's opinions on that?

Is everything hunky-dory here (I mean this thread in particular, and Typophile in general) or are there things people think need addressing?

hhp

DPape's picture

1 vote: Everything in this forum is (used to be) hunky-dory... Very little needs addressing... Things need to go faster without long drawn out threads that
go around
and down
and deeper ...

abattis's picture

I always thought Mr Lemonad was inspired by Mr Unger on this one! ;)

hrant's picture

Lemonad (his real name?) states:
"Cuprum was created in 2006 based on the works Miles Newlyn."
Which BTW is two years before Modena came out...

Dave, unlike the others here defending Lemonad (with some people staying tellingly quiet) you're an actual type designer: please look at that "once" and explain it away.

Is Modena too close to Unger's work? Separate issue. Murdering a murderer is still murder (not that this is as serious an issue of course). But I personally think Miles (who has exhibited a distaste of plagiarism) is on the safe side of the threshold.

BTW Jan, do you plan on addressing the issue you brought up yourself?

And Dick, is there something you'd like to say/do based on the encouraging recent revelations concerning your philosophy, below?
http://typophile.com/node/101076#comment-546069

hhp

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