I have quite 'weird' problem with my font. For some reason one kerning pair (as far as i know) is not working in Adobe CS3 software (indesign, photoshop etc.). Still its perfectly fine in numerous other softwares (MS Word, NeoOffice, Linotype fontexplorer etc.). The problem appears both in "class kerning" and "flat kerning mode".

The problematic kerning-pair is "Va" so it's too visible in display sizes to ignore.

I've attached detailed picture comparing the pair "Va" and "VA" in multiple softwares.

I hope someone knows something similar and can help me on this.


Hey Everybody,
I made a truetype typeface including different kernig pairs. The kerning works fine in all programms of adobe but it doesnt seems to work in programms like motion 4 . The person i made it for however needs it to work in this programm, The strange thing is that i opened the typeface in open office, where also the kerning is not activated but it looks different from the result in motion 4. There for exmple VA looks fine whereas AV doenst seem to be accessed, Is there a way to solve that problem for motion 4 ? or does it have to do with some setting i would need to change in fontlab, respectively did i miss a option to make the kerning work properly in other programms?
Would be great if somebody could give me some input on this!
Thanks and a nice pre-christmas time!

I generated a font with just one kerning pair of -60.
The font appeears in InDesign CS5 ME with no kerning visible but the kern values in the menu appear in brackets (-60).

Fontlab 5.04 build 2741

In the prefernces, Generating Open Type... Kerning:
Expand class kerning while building [kern] table.

InDesign CS5 ME

timmyneutron's picture

how to avoid class kerning errors

Hey i am trying to generate my font but always get kerning errors and the kerning of many paris gets irgnored in indesign later, could somebody tell me really basic hot to solve this! Would be great, as iam really stuck here!
Here are the Errors:

[NOTE] Removing duplicate glyph [/Users/timmhaneke/Library/Application Support/FontLab/Studio 5/Features/fontlab.fea 63]
[WARNING] Start of new pair positioning subtable; some pairs may never be accessed: [a] [h i m n] [/Users/timmhaneke/Library/Application Support/FontLab/Studio 5/Features/fontlab.fea 64]
[NOTE] Removing duplicate glyph [/Users/tim/Library/Application Support/FontLab/Studio 5/Features/fontlab.fea 75]

Hi all,

I've been wondering about kerning pairs in fonts. There seems to be a lot of variation in the amount of kerning pairs per font. A font like Frutiger LT Std 55 Roman (251 characters) by Linotype has 441 kerning pairs. URW's version of Frutiger, Frutus (Regular 243 characters), has 979 kerning pairs, and Cartogothic Std (349 characters), A free Frutiger version (ripoff?) by FontSite has 4726 kerning pairs. What does this tell me about the quality of these fonts, if anything?

Of course it all comes down to the quality of the kerning itself, but still, would one spot the difference in a normal text setting to have 4000 instead of 400 kerning pairs?

pixelprank's picture

Logo Kerning

Think I'm about there with this.

Any thoughts on the kerning?

Any comments greatly appreciated.


I'm working on a new project for a conference based in Windsor, UK. I'm experimenting with faces like Hoefler Black but I'm struggling with the spacing and kerning between the first two characters of the word Windsor. I'd like tight kerning on the whole word but as you can see with the basic example image (above), the upper case w seems disjointed from the remainder of the word causing an imbalance (to my eyes at least!).
Any input, help and advice from all you Typophiles would be appreciated.


therealbrendan's picture

Kerning Help

I have four words here that could use some letter spacing critique.

therealbrendan's picture


I've got four words here that could use some critique!

We are using a version of century gothic that has a lot of kerning issues. I believe this was a free version downloaded off the internet. Does anyone have recommendations for a high-quality version of this typeface?


I'm seeking some advice on kerning of Cyrillic glyph afii10093, picture attached. My question is: Since it's made up of two separate 'mini-glyphs', should it be kerned as two glyphs or one? That is, should the spaces either side equal the space in between the two sections, or be larger (so that the glyph appears more as a unfied whole)?


My first font. So far I made all the glyphs of all the 6 families of my font and spaced them as best as I could. Created oldstyle-, ornament-, smallcaps-, ligatures- and discretionary ligature features.

Now come the tidious part I understand. Kerning. What is the best way to go about it??
I was thinking about beginning to kern the Capital A next to lowercase glyphs with classes.
then B, C, etc. etc.

Question 1:
If I do it this way, can I work with classes in the kerning panel? Like this:

_kern1: A' @_lc @_sc

Question 2:

If I want to kern the lowercase a next to the capital A, do I have to drag in all of the a-diacretics symbols as well? Or do those composite glyphs just follow a when it is kerned

We are developers of an online game and as we develop more using dynamic text we are finding that we need to fix font issues on a font by font basis in order for them to publish correctly within that environment. The main issues that we are running across are with special characters in the Latin character set, primarily accented characters. Sometimes these characters will drop out altogether or will push the following character out by two spaces or so when published. This doesn't happen when the fonts are used statically, only dynamically.

Just spotted the packaging:

Is it only me that wants to stick that balloon in between R & A?

I've been trying to get in touch with Christian Robertson of Betatype for the last 2 months. Long story short I purchased multiple cuts of the font Pill Gothic for a large scale project. I work in the broadcast industry in Canada and need some modifications made to the font. They are as follows:

1. Convert the Open type to true type
2. Tweak the kerning on a number of character sets
3. Replace the lowercase "a" with the alternate a

Chris agreed to make these modifications but has been missing in action for the last two months. I've sent numerous emails with no response. Our deadlines are fast approaching and I need to get in contact with him. If anyone can provide me with any help or direction it would be much appreciated.

Kerning isn't one of my super-powers, and certainly isn't something I do on a daily basis.
So, I'd love to get some hints and pointers on the kerning in the text below, because things are starting to look all the same...
Particulary the "TSUTV"-part is hard to balance evenly against the rest, and the loose tracking doesn't really make it easier.
Did I just mess it up? Be harsh. It's alright.

Thanks in advance


Ps. It says "Property Development" in swedish, in case you wanted to know. Ds.



Typo_808's picture

Kern opinions

Hello all

I have recently created a logotype that is spaced quite generously for various reasons, however because of the characters involved and the slightly unorthodox forms that I have created it's taking me a while to decide whether I have got the kerning right here.
I've already consulted a very good typographer on this already and it was given a thumbs up, but Im interested to see if anyone else agrees.


Dear readers,

i am wondering how to best handle case sensitive punctuation (opentype CASE feature) and kerning of these characters with uppercase letters. Depending on the vertical position of the character (let's say "{"), the horizontal kerning has to change too to make everything look well alligned.

I can imagine of these solutions (working with fontlab 5):

- kern as if CASE was always applied (looks ugly if the user just types with capslock)

- kern as if CASE was never applied (often looks bad just when it should actually look good)

- fiddle with the horizontal pos values in CASE feature - but it would mean to change them for every possible combination manually - lots of work ...)

Hi there!

I'm a 3d motion designer learning more about Typography, an interest of mine which sadly has not been of great importance in the projects that I do for work.

So while I have some spare time I'd like to re-educate myself and learn how to use it better.

For starters I have question about tracking and kerning.

Often when I kern and track some letters, I do it by eye, but who knows if I have a good eye for this sort of detail? ;)

I'm wondering are there any good online resources that can show me good kerning/tracking and perhaps show me a few do's and don'ts?

Also any books perhaps?


I'm designing business cards and I would like for the kerning/letter spacing of the letters to look right.. i dont have 2 much knowledge on the subject so thought I would ask here.. is there any tips/guidelines I can look at? I'm concerned about some letters like V,K,W,A.. letters with slants in them confuse me so before I go ahead and submit the design to have these cards printed I would like to figure this out.. Where can I find information on which letters should get tighter kerning than others? What about spaces in words? is there a way to figure out how big the space should be?

In Quark 6.5, on Max OS 10.4.11, the bold weights of some fonts are not displaying correctly.
This issue is becoming too much to endure, and getting InDesign isn't an option.
Any advice or suggestions are most appreciated.


As you can see, the bold version of the font doesn't seem to have its kerning info. I don't use the kerning table in Quark.
This is a PostScript Type1 font file. Only Quark seems to botch the kerning like this: Photoshop, etc. are fine.

I've wiped the jaws folder, and that hasn't helped. This is how they appear in font lists.

Font Book list:

Quark list:

Does this strike anyone else as odd?

Good evening,

I'm finally working on my first typeface! Yay. It's a conservative, old-style text serif and it will look like this. It'll be an open source project that I work on in my free time.

Since I have no typographic education whatsoever (I'm an engineering freshman straight out of highschool with a type addiction), I need some help: how do I space letters horizontally? I just finished the lowercase letters and I already spend most of my time changing side bearings and kernings instead of drawing letters. That is annoying and frustrating. It's a constant shifting of letters back and forth, and I never seem to get the spacing quite even.

esquire's picture

Correct spacing between letters

Hello everyone.

I've been wondering for a long time about kerning and wonder if anyone can help me out with this specific issue I have, I've tried to illustrate it as clearly as I can.

On the attached image I've tightened the whole word as an example without manually kerning anything. Usually if I wanted to keep it at this general tightness my first instinct would be to match the space between each letter to the space either side of the "o". However, I've always been slightly confused as to what should be correct spacing (in this example) for the letters circled.

A) I assume l's should have more space than anything else so I'd leave it as is.
B) The "s" and "t" are touching here, how much space would I put between those?
C) The "r" and "a" - nearly touching?


While InDesign CS4 doesn't feature a kerning table, it does support GREP styles, which can be used to apply custom kerning values to extended text settings. Because I haven't seen this documented in a truly helpful way (not that I've looked too hard) and some peeps have asked about it, here's a quick writeup of a possible procedure. Maybe if some of you have corrections or suggestions how to do it better, we can put together a killer workflow. (Scuse the atypically looong post… I figured Typophile was still the best place to put this.)

So in the text above, note the absence of a kern pair for «Tó» while «To» looks fine.

Step 1: Kern the pair manually, once.


Syndicate content Syndicate content